In oduc ion
And eas E ges* and Da id Dean
The In e na ional Council o Museums and he
Con o e sy abou a New Museum Defini ion –A
Con e sa ion wi h Lau an Bonilla-Me cha , B uno
B ulon Soa es, Lonnie G. Bunch III, Be nice
Mu phy, and Michèle Ri e
h ps://doi.o g/10.1515/iph-2022-2039
Published online July 1, 2022
Abs ac : In 2019, an Ex ao dina y Gene al Assembly
In e na ional Council o Museums (ICOM) me in Kyo o,
Japan o o e on a new museum de ini ion. Among o he
hings, hecon o e sialp oposaldesc ibedmuseumsas
“democ a ising, inclusi e and polyphonic spaces o
c i ical dialogue abou he pas s and he u u es” ha
should also aim “ o con ibu e o human digni y and
social jus ice, global equali y and plane a y wellbeing.”
The mo ion o pos pone he o e, which was suppo ed by
a la ge majo i y in Kyo o, caused a c isis in he mos
impo an in e na ional o ganiza ion o museums and
museum p o essionals. In he yea s since, ICOM De ine
led an elabo a e consul a ion p ocess esul ing in a newly
e ised museum de ini ion o be o ed on a ICOM’s
Ex ao dina y Gene al Assembly in P ague in Augus
2022. In his con e sa ion, se e al p ominen membe s o
ICOM who ha e been deeply in ol ed in he deba es abou
a new museum de ini ion ake a c i ical look a he
consul a ion p ocess be o e Kyo o, he easons o pos -
poning he o e, he wo k o ICOM De ine, and also sha e
hei expec a ions o P ague.
Keywo ds: In e na ional Council o Museums, ICOM, mu-
seums, museum de ini ion
In Augus 2020, he New Yo k Times w o e ha “museums
a e ha ing an iden i y c isis.”
1
Al eady a yea be o e, The A
Newspape had spoken abou a “ eud”and “qua els”inside
o he museum wo ld.
2
And in Ma ch 2021, he Museums
Jou nal s a ed ha he e was “wa a e”be ween e o me s
and conse a i es.
3
Wha hey ough abou was he ques-
ion: wha is a museum? o , mo e specifically, abou a new
museum defini ion o be adop ed by he In e na ional
Council o Museums (ICOM).
ICOM, which was ounded in 1947, is he mos impo -
an in e na ional o ganiza ion o museums and museum
p o essionals in he global communi y wi h nea ly 50,000
membe s om o e 138 coun ies. ICOM has 123 na ional
commi ees om Albania o Zambia and se en egional
alliances (A ab, Asia-Paci ic, Eu ope, La in Ame ican and
he Ca ibbean, Wes A ica, No he n Eu ope, and Sou h-
Eas Eu ope). The e a e also 32 in e na ional commi ees
ocusing on speci ic ields o in e es such as cos umes,
conse a ion, his o ic house museums, memo ial museums,
na u al his o y, and e hical dilemmas. Wi hin he o gani-
za ion he e a e ou wo king g oups and eigh s anding
*Co esponding au ho : And eas E ges, IPH edi o s, Munich,
Ge many, E-mail: [email p o ec ed]
Da id Dean, IPH edi o s, O awa, Canada,
E-mail: [email p o ec ed]a
1Alex Ma shall, “Wha Is a Museum? A Dispu e E up s O e a New
Defini ion: An in e na ional e o o upda e he defini ion o wha
museums a e has been me wi h esigna ions and poli ical in igue,”
New Yo k Times, Augus 6, 2020, h ps://www.ny imes.com/2020/08/
06/a s/wha -is-a-museum.h ml.
2Vincen Noce, “Wha exac ly is a museum? Icom comes o blows
o e new defini ion,”The A Newspape , Augus 19, 2019, h ps://
www. hea newspape .com/2019/08/19/wha -exac ly-is-a-museum-
icom-comes- o-blows-o e -new-defini ion, h ps://icom.museum/en/
news/museum-defini ion-p ocess- he- wo-final-p oposals/.
3Ge aldine Kendall Adams, “Ideological i pe sis s as Icom es a s
museum defini ion consul a ion: ‘Wa a e’be ween e o me s and
conse a i es has no subsided since Kyo o con e ence,”Museums
Jou nal, Ma ch 2, 2021, h ps://www.museumsassocia ion.o g/
museums-jou nal/news/2021/03/ideological- i -pe sis s-as-icom-
es a s-museum-defini ion-consul a ion/.
In e na ional Public His o y. 2022; 5(1): 19–27
Open Access. © 2022 And eas E ges and Da id Dean, published by De G uy e . This wo k is licensed unde he C ea i e Commons A ibu ion
4.0 In e na ional License.
commi ees, including he Commi ee o Museum De ini-
ion, P ospec s and Po en ials (MDPP) esponsible o he
discussion o a new museum de ini ion which is a he hea
o he con e sa ion ha ollows.
A ICOM’s Gene al Assembly in Vienna, Aus ia in
2007, he ollowing de ini ion o a museum was adop ed:
A museum is a non-p o i , pe manen ins i u ion in he se ice o
socie y and i s de elopmen , open o he public, which acqui es,
conse es, esea ches, communica es and exhibi s he angible
and in angible he i age o humani y and i s en i onmen o he
pu poses o educa ion, s udy and enjoymen .
4
In he yea s ollowing, he e was a g owing conce n ha
his de ini ion no longe ully ep esen ed museums in he
con empo a y wo ld, and in 2016, he MDPP was c ea ed o
e-examine he de ini ion in ligh o “new condi ions,
obliga ions and possibili ies o museums.”
5
The commi ee
p oposed a new defini ion which was pu be o e he
Ex ao dina y Gene al Assembly in Kyo o, Japan in 2019:
Museums a e democ a ising, inclusi e and polyphonic spaces o
c i ical dialogue abou he pas s and he u u es. Acknowledging
and add essing he con lic s and challenges o he p esen , hey
hold a e ac s and specimens in us o socie y, sa egua d
di e se memo ies o u u e gene a ions and gua an ee equal
igh s and equal access o he i age o all people.
Museums a e no o p o i . They a e pa icipa o y and ans-
pa en , and wo k in ac i e pa ne ship wi h and o di e se
communi ies o collec , p ese e, esea ch, in e p e , exhibi , and
enhance unde s andings o he wo ld, aiming o con ibu e o
human digni y and social jus ice, global equali y and plane a y
wellbeing.
6
Be o e his adical e ision was pu o he o e, howe e , a
mo ion was b ough o wa d by ICOM Eu ope, suppo ed
by ICOM Canada and many o he s o pos pone he o e.
Despi e opposi ion om na ional commi ees such as ICOM
Aus alia and ICOM Uni ed S a es, he mo ion o pos pone
he o e p e ailed by 396 o es o 157, wi h wo abs en ions
and se en no o es.
7
Many easons o he decision we e oiced: dissa is-
ac ion o e he p ocess, objec ion o complex academic
ocabula y, s a emen s ha seemed o impose obliga ions
which would be un ealizable in ce ain coun ies, and ha
he p oposed wo ding was mo e like a mission s a emen
and call o ac ion han a de ini ion.
8
I was clea ha hose
suppo ing he mo ion o pos pone would o e agains he
new defini ion i hey we e o ced o cas a o e. Fo some
ICOM membe s, and o many ou side s, i seemed ha
ICOM had chosen o ake a poli ical s ance, ejec ing a
defini ion ha add essed con empo a y conce ns in a o
o a e y adi ional one. This was a iew sha ed by bo h
edi o s o In e na ional Public His o y, And eas E ges and
Da id Dean, espec i ely also membe s o ICOM Ge many
and ICOM Canada.
The decision caused signi ican esigna ions and he
ini ia ion o a new consul a i e p ocess, led by ICOM
De ine. We a e now coming o an end o h ee yea s o
in ense ac i i y a he in e na ional, egional, and na ional
le els. This led o he c ea ion o a sho lis o de ini ions o
which wo we e announced in May 2022:
P oposal A
A museum is a pe manen , no - o -p o i ins i u ion, accessible o
he public and o se ice o socie y. I esea ches, collec s, con-
se es, in e p e s and exhibi s angible and in angible cul u al
and na u al he i age in a p o essional, e hical and sus ainable
manne o educa ion, e lec ion and enjoymen . I ope a es and
communica es in inclusi e, di e se and pa icipa o y ways wi h
communi ies and he public.
P oposal B
A museum is a no - o -p o i , pe manen ins i u ion in he se ice
o socie y ha esea ches, collec s, conse es, in e p e s and
exhibi s angible and in angible he i age. Open o he public,
accessible and inclusi e, museums os e di e si y and sus ain-
abili y. They ope a e and communica e e hically, p o essionally
and wi h he pa icipa ion o communi ies, o e ing a ied ex-
pe iences o educa ion, enjoymen , e lec ion and knowledge
sha ing.
9
The o es a e now in: P oposal B will be pu o he o e a
ICOM’s Ex ao dina y Gene al Assembly in P ague in
Augus 2022.
We el ha he ime was igh o o e eade s a
con e sa ional a icle abou he p ocess and poli ics o
ICOM’s discussion o e de ining a museum in he con em-
po a y wo ld. This is no jus an issue o museums, bu o
anyone in e es ed in his o y, he i age, and cul u e. I is o
i al conce n o all public his o ians. We in i ed se e al
p ominen membe s o ICOM, some o whom we e in a o
o he new defini ion p oposed in Kyo o and some who
we e no , o join us in a con e sa ion. We would like o
hank hem once again o hei eadiness o do so.
4h ps://icom.museum/en/ esou ces/s anda ds-guidelines/museum-
defini ion/.
5h ps://icom.museum/en/news/ he-ex ao dina y-gene al-con e ence-
pospones- he- o e-on-a-new-museum-defini ion/.
6h ps://icom.museum/en/news/icom-announces- he-al e na i e-
museum-defini ion- ha -will-be-subjec - o-a- o e/.
7The deba e can be ollowed on he wi e eed o Uni e si y o
Leiden’s D . Csilla A iese beginning wi h he pos on Sep embe 6,
2019: h ps:// wi e .com/CsillaA iese/s a us/1170161521814458368. The
o ing esul s we e cap u ed by he in a pos on Sep embe 7, 2019.
8h ps://www.museumsassocia ion.o g/museums-jou nal/opinion/
2019/10/01102019-defini ion-jus -s a -o -con e sa ion/#.
9h ps://icom.museum/en/news/museum-defini ion-p ocess- he-
wo-final-p oposals/.
20 A. E ges and D. Dean
1 The Pa icipan s
Lau an Bonilla-Me cha holds a doc o al deg ee in a
his o y. Wi h na ional and in e na ional expe ience, she is
a lec u e , esea che , cu a o , and consul an o a , cul-
u e, museums, and he i age. Cu en ly she is adjunc
p o esso a bo h he Uni e si y o Cos a Rica and he Na-
ional Uni e si y o Cos a Rica, and se es on he boa d o
he Museum o Cos a Rican a . She has published on
mode n and con empo a y Cos a Rican a , as well as on
opics o museology. Lau an is easu e o ICOM Cos a Rica
and also easu e o he Regional Alliance o ICOM LAC
(La in Ame ica and he Ca ibbean). She cu en ly co-chai s
he ICOM S anding Commi ee o he Museum Defini ion.
B uno B ulon Soa es is a museologis and an h opologis
based in B azil, p o esso o museology a he Fede al Uni-
e si y o he S a e o Rio de Janei o (UNIRIO), and p o esso
in he Pos -G adua e P og am in Museology and He i age
(UNIRIO/MAST). He coo dina es he Labo a o y o Expe i-
men al Museology a his uni e si y, wo king closely wi h
communi y-based museums and wi h se e al p ojec s a he
g ass oo s le el in ol ing cul u al he i age and museums.
Cu en ly he is chai o he ICOM In e na ional Commi ee o
Museology (ICOFOM) and co-chai o he S anding Commi -
ee o he Museum Defini ion (ICOM Define). He is he au ho
and edi o o se e al publica ions on Museology and He i-
age, including he se ies o books “Decolonising museology”
(ICOFOM/ICOM). His esea ch cu en ly ocuses on museums
decolonisa ion, communi y ac ion, and he poli ical uses o
museums and cul u al he i age.
Lonnie G. Bunch III is he 14 h Sec e a y o he Smi hso-
nian. He assumed his posi ion June 16, 2019. As Sec e a y,
he o e sees 21 museums, 21 lib a ies, he Na ional Zoo,
nume ous esea ch cen e s, and se e al educa ion uni s
and cen e s. Two new museums – he Na ional Museum o
he Ame ican La ino and he Smi hsonian Ame ican
Women’s His o y Museum –a e in de elopmen . Bunch
was he ounding di ec o o he Smi hsonian’s Na ional
Museum o A ican Ame ican His o y and Cul u e and is he
fi s his o ian o be Sec e a y o he Ins i u ion. In 2021, he
ecei ed F ance’s highes awa d, The Legion o Hono .
Be nice Mu phy se ed nine yea s as a membe o he
Execu i e Boa d o ICOM, Pa is (six yea s as Vice-
P esiden , 1998–2004), hen chai ed ICOM E hics Com-
mi ee Chai o se en yea s (un il 2011). She is an Hono a y
Li e Membe o ICOM (Pa is) and he Aus alian Museums
and Galle ies Associa ion (Canbe a). She has cu a ed in-
e na ional and Aus alian exhibi ions o con empo a y
a ; published books and essays on a , a is s, a chi ec-
u e, museology, and museums, while ha ing a long-
s anding commi men (since 1978) o ad ancing
indigenous a is s and Fi s Na ions’sel - ep esen a ion in
museums. She coo dina ed ( o ICOM’s 70 h anni e sa y
celeb a ion, in Milan, 2016) a olume o essays on e hics
and museums: Be nice L Mu phy (ed.), Museums, E hics
and Cul u al He i age (Rou ledge, UK, and ICOM, Pa is,
2016).
The In e na ional Council o Museums and he Con o e sy abou a New Museum De ini ion 21
Michèle Ri e is, since 2019, Vice-Chai o he Boa d o
T us ees o he Canadian Museum o Human Righ s. She is
also a Boa d membe o ICOM-Canada (In e na ional
Council o Museums, Canadian Commi ee) and ICOFOM
(In e na ional Council o Museums, In e na ional Com-
mi ee on Museology). She ob ained a mas e ’s deg ee in
museology om he Uni e si y o Mon eal in 2015. Du ing
he s udies, she pa icula ly ocused on he ela ionships
be ween Fi s Peoples and Museums. Now a lawye o he
Ba eau du Québec, she was he fi s judge-p esiden o he
Quebec Human Righ s T ibunal in 1990, a posi ion she held
un il 2010. P e iously she had been Commissione o he
Law Re o m Commission o Canada om 1987 o 1990 and a
judge o Quebec’s You h Cou om 1981 o 1987. Michèle
Ri e was Vice-P esiden o he In e na ional Commission
o Ju is s (ICJ) in Gene a om 2010 o 2017. In 2005, he
Uni e si y o O awa awa ded he an hono a y doc o a e
o he in ol emen in he p omo ion o human igh s bo h
in Canada and in e na ionally. In 2011, he Quebec Cou
awa ded he a gold me i o he en i e ca ee in he judi-
cia y. In 2015, she ecei ed he Me i and he i le Ad o-
ca us Eme i us om he Quebec Ba . Michèle Ri e was
in es ed, as Membe , in o he O de o Canada in 2018. She
is also an hono a y membe o he Socié é Québécoise de
d oi in e na ional.
2 The Con e sa ion
10
IPH: You all ha e been e y ac i e in he museum wo ld and
o cou se in ICOM. Do you ha e a special childhood memo y
o going o museums o a pa icula momen ha igge ed
you in e es and cu iosi y in museums? When did museums
become impo an o you?
LBM: I was always e y in ol ed in he cul u al wo ld
because my mom is a hea e pe son. And he e in Cos a
Rica mos o he a s a e unded by he Minis y o Cul u e.
And so i is kind o a igh kni communi y, and I was awa e
ha he e was always g ea suppo o he pe o ming a s
in Cos a Rica, especially music. The museums we e de i-
ni ely no ge ing enough suppo . I was p obably in high
school when I no iced his and I don’ know why because I
didn’ go o museums ha o en. I was de ini ely a he
hea e all he ime, dance music, hea e , bu no so much
museums. Bu I mysel was an a is and hen wen o
college and hough I was going o s udy a chi ec u e and
hen wen he ou e o a his o y and ended up ge ing a
doc o a e in a his o y. And so, o cou se, he kind o
second se o lash memo ies ha came o my mind when I
hea d his ques ion was: I was o una e enough o s udy
bo h my unde g ad and g ad deg ee in New Yo k Ci y. And
so ha was a an as ic place o s udy a and being a hose
museums and ha ing lash momen s o museum g andeu
in my mind o jus pe sonal momen s s anding in on o
wo ks o a o ha ing he oppo uni y, o example, o
s udying a medie al manusc ip . I was jus like, my
goodness, wha is his? So ha ’s de ini ely my hough s on
museums.
LB: I hink my ea lies memo y o museums and my
in ol emen was p obably six h g ade as a 12-yea -old. We
wen o he Clois e s in New Yo k on a school ip and I
couldn’ belie e he e we e sui s o a mo . I didn’ know I
was no supposed o ouch hem, and I knocked one o e .
And we all go h own ou o he museum. The nex day he
p incipal yelled a us: how da e you emba ass ou
elemen a y school? I emembe hinking, his s u mus be
eally impo an i we jus go in ouble o i . And i jus led
me o consciously go back o museums, whe e I came o
ecognize ha i was ou collec i e memo y. Ul ima ely, as
a schola and a he Smi hsonian, whe e I’ e spen mos o
my ca ee , I ealized ha in some ways you had he bigges
can as o pain on. I hough ha o ackle he issues ha
we ca ed abou , issues o ai ness o inclusi i y, ha i
should be on he bigges can as. So o me, i was an
oppo uni y o say I was so y o knocking o e ha sui o
a mo and also o pain on a bigge can as.
BM: I g ew up in Melbou ne, which had a ema kable
a collec ion. My i s encoun e wi h ha collec ion was
an occasional e en o en called “a ainy day ou ing”in
one’s childhood. In Melbou ne, i was qui e no mal o
amilies o all classes o backg ounds a some s age o ake
child en o he museum, which in mos cases was co-
loca ed wi h he imp essi e S a e Lib a y. Melbou ne’s
Lib a y had an ex ao dina y Reading Room, wi h high
bookshel es su ounding you om all di ec ions, bu also
eceding because i was a huge, ca e nous space. F om
ha space, you wen up some s ai s leading owa ds he
na u al his o y museum (in he same building). Bu a he
op o he s ai s was a axide mied, monumen al
10 The con e sa ion was eco ded ia Zoom and was edi ed o cla i y
and b e i y.
22 A. E ges and D. Dean
p esen a ion o he mos amous aceho se in Aus alia,
called Pha Lap, which was he oized like a pe son in many
people’s imagina ion. And om Pha Lap, leading away
om he na u al his o y collec ions and u he up ano he
s ai case was he s a e’s a collec ion. And he e we e
ex ao dina y “old mas e ”wo ks o a o be ound up
he e. So my i s encoun e wi h he museum wo ld was
one which in e connec ed he wo lds o lea ning –books
wi h na u al his o y – ocks, ossils –and hen his wo ld o
a opening beyond in eally a con e sa ional expe ience.
Wha I maybe p ojec back on o ha expe ience was he
in e connec ion o na u al his o y, he his o y o he wo ld
o a , o he imagina i e li e, and he wo ld o lea ning.
BB: Ac ually, he e a e many, many possible answe s
o his ques ion, bu I’m going o y o gi e he mos hones
one. As a kid, mos o us used o go o he Na ional Museum
in Rio, which is whe e mos o us i s go ou expe ience
wi h he museum. Un o una ely, we don’ ha e i anymo e
[ he Na ional Museum was des oyed by i e in 2018]. I is
being ebuil . Which made his e en mo e emo ional
because I usually ask his ques ion o my s uden s a he
beginning o he semes e , and he mos o hem usually
e e ed o he Na ional Museum. So i is a big e e ence o
me. Bu also, I come om a ci y ac ually ou side o Rio,
which is a smalle ci y ha has an indigenous name:
Ni e ói. In my childhood, he e was no museum in my own
own, so we had o go o Rio, which was like a eling. I is
no e y a , i is like wo hou s away. Bu o us, as a kid, i
was a eling o ano he uni e se and especially o go o
he big ci y whe e he museums we e. And so he school
ips o Rio we e like he bigges disco e y o us, and he e
was his sense o finding some hing new. My amily was no
e y cul u al, bu I hink in a way I ound in he a wo ld a
way o exis as an indi idual. I used o pain and o wo k
wi h a , hough I ha e ne e wo ked wi h a museums,
su p isingly. So my fi s isi ha I eally ecall igge ing
my in e es o he museum wo ld was when I isi ed he
fine a museums in Rio, which is like a big museum e y
inspi ed by Eu opean museums o a . And o me, i was a
shock coming om a small own o see ha so close o me
he e was such a huge ins i u ion wi h so many wo ks o
a and some hing ha eally inspi ed me. Bu I hink
wha made me wan o become a museologis was, I hink,
a li le bi like wha Be nice was saying, he possibili ies o
disco e ing di e en hings. When I was a eenage , I fi s
a eled o Eu ope and isi ed he Na u al His o y
Museum in London. I always conside ed ha momen he
bigges disco e y because we didn’ ha e science mu-
seums like ha in B azil. And so o me, i was like, wow, a
museum can also be ha , i can be he a museum, bu i
can also be his. So o me, i was he possibili y o
wo king wi h comple ely di e en hings like ha ing he
a wo k bu also ha ing he na u al his o y in my own
field o p ac ice.
MR: My i s ca ee was in law. I was he Chie Jus ice o
he Quebec Human Righ s T ibunal p esided o 20 yea s ill
2010. And when I e i ed, I decided o go back o my i s
lo e –and my fi s lo e was museums. As a law s uden in
Pa is doing a PhD, I had he oppo uni y o aking some
cou ses in Egyp ology a he Lou e. So I wen back o
uni e si y wi h much younge people han me, and I go a
mas e deg ee in museology 2015. I linked human igh s
wi h museology. Pu he ocus on he Abo iginal people,
Fi s Na ions. This is my new li e. I’m qui e old, bu a new
museologis . And I’m e yp i ileged obewi hICOMCan-
ada, wi h ICOFOM [In e na ional Commi ee o Museology],
and also o be he ice chai o he Canadian Museum o
Human Righ s. Now i is ime o me jus o go wi h my
passion, and my passion is eally museums. Museums ha e
a e y impo an social ole o play and museums could be
and should be ac o s o social change, as cou s could be.
Bu I’m su e ha museums can play ha ole.
IPH: Be nice, wha was behind ha d i e o s a a e-
o m commission on a new museum defini ion in 2015? And
could you sha e wi h us you iews on he p oposed new
defini ion ha came up o discussion in Kyo o and also he
deba e ha ook place a ound i ?
BM: Discussion o ICOM’s“museum”de ini ion began
as a back as 1998–99. I was a c i ical momen in ICOM a
ha ime, when o ces we e u gen ly clus e ing a ound he
need o change. Museums people we e p ojec ing ideas
o wa d in o a new cen u y and agi a ed abou ways in
which museums needed o change how hey unc ioned.
And his b ough a en ion o ICOM i sel and how i
unc ioned. I had jus been elec ed Vice-P esiden o ICOM
and was asked by he P esiden and Boa d i I would chai a
Re o m Task Fo ce o look a he whole o ganiza ion o
ICOM –which became known as he ICOM Re o m Task
Fo ce (ICOM-RTF). The only so o ex ca hed a [on my own
au ho i y] decision I made was ea ly on: I decided, We’ e
no going o spend ime on he S a u es o we’ll ne e ge
any hing impo an done abou o ganiza ional unc ions. I
also ound ha he S a u es pe mi ed a mo e libe y o
ac ion and e o m han people imagined. The e was almos
no hing in he S a u es ha es ained museum people and
ICOM om ac ion o change.
A c ucial S a u es s a emen was he de ini ion o a
museum, which looked old and a bi us y. Bu I ealized
ha we could no ocus on ha because i would equi e a
s a u o y change ha would lead us in o long o mal
The In e na ional Council o Museums and he Con o e sy abou a New Museum De ini ion 23

p ocesses o deba e, while i was impo an o ge on wi h
u gen e o m wo k. RTF wo ked and consul ed widely o e
a yea , and de eloped conc e e p oposals o change ha I
compiled in an ex ensi e epo (adop ed in Ap il 2000)
which analyzed he whole o ganiza ion. (How did each
pa unc ion? Wha we e i s key pu poses? How could i
change o be i o a new cen u y).
Colleagues and all in e na ional Chai s o commi ees
had almos a yea o conside he 57 Re o m P oposals and
hei easons; so ha when i inally came o o ing a he
Gene al Assembly in Ba celona (6 July 2001), he e o ms
had been discussed h ough ICOM’s plena y sessions many
imes. The e’d been wo k also wi h he Execu i e Boa d o
o mula e he i s -e e Mission and Values s a emen s
o ICOM, and he o ganiza ion’sfi s iennial S a egic
Plan (all con ained in he Re o m Task Fo ce’s Repo ). As
a esul , 57 o ganiza ional e o ms we e passed unani-
mously, wi hou abs en ion.
Tha p ocess o ms he basis o my belie ha ICOM is
no a body ha is esis an o change; i is always possible
o p opose new ideas and achie e change in ICOM. Bu i
you go h ough a p ocess whe e you a e seeking o e o m
o change some hing subs an ial in ICOM, i is ex emely
impo an o be clea , o consul , and o es ablish a p ecise
me hodology.
The ICOM “Museum”de ini ion e o m was de e ed
because i was in he S a u es, and equi ed a sepa a e,
u he p ocess. I w o e abou he de ini ion in ICOM News in
2004 and said hen ha i seemed o me like an old ca pe
ha ’s been s i ched many imes and epai ed, bu i had
become wo n ou ; i eally needed o be deaccessioned as a
museological a i ac . Bu in my iew, i isa p ecise echnical
ask o wo k on some hing like a new museum de ini ion,
which also has legal implica ions. This is no a ask ha can
be led use ully by comple ely open plena y se ies o mee -
ings wi hou any me hodology. I hink i was inc edibly ill-
ad ised o go ou o he whole o ICOM (2016–2019) asking o
opinions abou museums, aising such a le el o in e ac ion
in all o he Na ional Commi ees, In e na ional Commi ees,
Regional Alliances, all pa s o ICOM, wi hou a me hodology,
wi hou any clea way o b ing all o ha in e ac ion p o-
g essi ely in o some disciplined o ma . So when jus a ew
weeks be o e he Gene al Assembly in Kyo o (2019), a single
defini ion was ci cula ed wi hou commen a e h ee yea s’
wo k, i should no ha e been su p ising o people ha i
caused such dismay among many ci cles.
Howe e , since Kyo o, B uno and Lau an ha e gone
h ough exac ly he igo ous kind o p ocess, and i is been
ICOM-wide, ha ’s needed o gain ca e ul consul a ion
which ul ima ely will b ing you down o pe haps wo
sen ences (no mo e), ha a e p ecise, clea ly unde s and-
able, and can be used as a e e ence wo ldwide, including
in legal documen s o cul u al policies.
IPH: You a e implying ha he p ocess was he majo
p oblem. Lonnie, you we e in Kyo o oo and we e in ol ed.
Do you wan o espond?
LB: I jus ha e a e y di e en iew. My sense is ha he
p ocess may ha e been lawed, bu he poli ical issues go in
he way o he eal con e sa ion. Fo me, his was a cla ion
call o museums o hink and a way o eimagine hem-
sel es and o eimagine ela ionships. My no ion was ha in
Kyo o, o he de ini ion, I migh no ha e used “poly-
phonic”and e ms like ha . Bu I hink ha he no ion o
sugges ing ha museums ha e o e hink hei alue p op-
osi ion, he no ion ha museums ha e a con empo a y
esonance was e y, e y powe ul o me. My conce n in
Kyo o was simply ha I eally hough ha , whe he he
p ocess was lawed o no , you ei he ga e he de ini ion an
up o down o e. I didn’ like pos poning, e en hough
p obably i u ned ou o be he be e solu ion. I hough i
eally wen agains wha I expec ed o happen in Kyo o, and
I was disappoin ed, candidly. So much o he con e sa ion
he e made me hink abou a p o ession ha was much less
bold and c ea i e han I wan ed i o be.
LBM: The g oup o us in he Museum De ini ion, P os-
pec s and Po en ials commi ee (MDPP) eally did begin e y
subs an ial wo k ha led o p ecisely wha Lonnie is alking
abou : he abili y o come o wa d wi h a good basis and
wi h good eason. Yes, in ac , museums ha e changed. I
hink wha needed o happen was con inued consul a ion
wi hin ha p ocess. Wha you, Be nice and Lonnie said,
makes i e y clea ha he p ocess was lawed. Pe haps no
he whole p ocess, bu i was d awn o a close oo soon.
Th ee yea s was no enough ime o come up wi h a d as i-
cally changed de ini ion because o he ac ha , as Be nice
says, i is like a wo n-ou ca pe . I is jus been s i ched and
mended. I lo e he me apho .
One o he hings ha has uni ed B uno and me, wha
enabled us o wo k so well oge he , was ou pe cep ion
ha in Kyo o membe s we e gene ally happy wi h he di-
ec ion MDPP was going, bu ha hey wan ed o be con-
sul ed. Bu i became so poli ical and people we e saying,
Oh no, i is bad o no, i is good.
IPH: Some ou side c i ics ocused on he di ficul lan-
guage o polyphonic spaces, which was a so o academic
language. The no ion o museums being democ a izing mu-
seums, being inclusi e, being spaces o c i ical dialogue,
was mo e accessible. Ou side s looking in on ha deba e
s uggled wi h he no ion why museums should no be
democ a izing. Why hey should no be inclusi e and why no
24 A. E ges and D. Dean
spaces o c i ical dialogue. In he media, his was some imes
po ayed as a esul o ha pos ponemen . So we e hose
hings a s ake o was i mos ly he p ocess?
LB: Michelle’s poin abou social jus ice is e y impo an
o me. While I saw a lo o wha was abou p ocess, I also
hea d his eal deba e abou whe he museum ins i u ions a e
o wa d-meaning, abou social jus ice, o mo e inclusi e.
F om wha I hea d, i wasn’ simply a p ocess issue. I eally
c ea ed a undamen al deba e. As an academic, I lo e hose
deba es. We jus didn’ ha e he igh mechanism o ac ually
ame hose deba es and w es le wi h ha . I you we e om
he ou side and you we e jus aking no es, you would say ha
his is eally abou hose who wan change and hose who
don’ . And ha may be simplis ic, bu ha ’s hewayi seemed
a ha momen . Wha I wan o know is, how much o his is
simply a p ocess-d i en ailu e o how much o i is abou
al e ing isions o he oles and possibili ies o museums.
MR: I was in Kyo o and i was an absolu ely an as ic
week. I was a momen um ha may ne e happen again.
Righ : i was abou he p ocess. Righ : i was abou he
con en . I also was abou he ac ha he e a e wo ds ha
don’ ha e he same meaning o ou , en people si ing in
a oom. I eally applaud he i ali y o membe s o ICOM.
And I hink i is eally a p omise o he u u e.
I was much mo e abou he p ocess, bu i was, and he
p ocess was comple ely unaccep able. I emembe ha we
go he new p oposal, when many people we e on holiday
in July, so i was nea ly impossible e en o consul ou
membe s. This is he eason why we in Canada we e he
i s coun y ou side o Eu ope o ask o a pos ponemen
wi h ICOM. Bu I ound he i ali y o ICOM membe s in
Kyo o absolu ely an as ic, and he museum de ini ion was
alked abou a b eak as , a lunch ime, and e en when
ha ing a d ink in he e ening.
BB: Lis ening o all o you, I keep hinking ha he e is
an aspec o his p ocess ha is de ini ely poli ical. I e y
much see he museum de ini ion as ou in angible cul u al
he i age. I is some hing ha we ha e had o so long, and
e en he deba e is pa o his he i age. As a membe o he
Commi ee o Museology (ICOFOM) I pa icipa ed in my
i s session in 2006 in A gen ina, and i was abou he
museum de ini ion. This was all ha people wan ed o
discuss. And in a way, in he end, we we e a li le bi
us a ed because he e was no such a g ea change in
2007 and we s ayed basically wi h he de ini ion ha we
had. Bu I hink he ac ha we ha e had his de ini ion o
so long, i has become pa o ou he i age. We know i is
e y di icul and e y poli ical o change he i age.
We don’ know i wha e e we a e going o p opose in
his nex s age in he nex ew mon hs is going o be
app o ed, because he e is such a high esis ance agains
change. I conside i na u al in a way, bu a he same ime
p oblema ic, because museums a e changing. The e is
ano he aspec ha I would like o b ing a en ion o, which
is how ICOMi sel has changed. I nowhas 45,000membe s.
The ac ha we ha e so many mo e membe s and so many
mo e di e se membe s om di e en places makes his
p ocess much mo e complex han when he cu en de ini-
ion was discussed. So I hink i is na u al when you a e
ying o change some hing ha is so adi ional and so
oo ed in he o ganiza ion, i is di icul o accomplish such a
change. Bu a he same ime, he ICOM ha we ha e oday
canno be he same and canno s ill alue he museum he
same way as i was alued in he 70s.
BM: My iew was ha he p ocess o examining he
museum de ini ion was opening up so many impo an
ques ions and issues ha in my own li e I ha e ough o
since I i s wen o Tasmania in my wen ies, eaching a
his o y in an a school he e, and lea ned wha happened in
he Black Wa [ ough be ween Abo iginal peoples and
B i ish colonis s om he mid-1820s o 1832]. (Tha unda-
men ally al e ed my li e he ea e as a pe son.) So wha
wo ied me abou he e no being a clea MD p ocess was
ha ,on heonehand, he ewe esomanyene gies obe
opened up, libe a ed, and ca ied o wa d in he eimagining
o museums. A he same ime, I knew qui e well knew ha
qui e a numbe o na ional commi ees would become
agi a ed because he de ini ion was in hei law. ICOM I aly
had ough o yea s o ge he ICOM de ini ion accep ed le-
gallyso ha i couldp o idep o ec ion agains go e nmen al
mo es ha we e made o p i a ize museums, o example.
IPH: B uno and Lau an, you we e pu in cha ge o he
g oup ha es uc u ed he p ocess [a second ime, a e he
Kyo o Gene al Assembly in 2019]. Can you b iefly desc ibe
ha new p ocess and also he expe iences you’ e had? Do
you s ill see a i along some o he lines ha we ha e dis-
cussed o has his p ocess, in spi e o he ailings o Kyo o, led
o some hing ha you hink will ein igo a e ICOM?
LBM: In he ime be ween Kyo o and he c isis o es-
igna ions [nine membe s o ICOM’s council and execu i e
boa d esigned in he mon hs ollowing Kyo o, including
p esiden Suay Aksoy and chai o he museum de ini ion
commi ee, Je e Sandhal] he e was a s uggle wi hin
ICOM. Suddenly we had no p esiden , and he MDPP2
g oup didn’ eally e en know i we we e going o con inue
wo king. As ICOM mo ed on, MDPP2 eg ouped, bu B uno
and mysel we e no chai ing i a ha poin . We led a g oup
o people ha we called he me hodology subcommi ee o
come up wi h a comple ely new me hodology. The me h-
odology subcommi ee was emendously challenging
because he e was his poli ical i . The e we e igu es
wi hin he subcommi ee and wi hin ICOM who we e e y
The In e na ional Council o Museums and he Con o e sy abou a New Museum De ini ion 25
s aunchly in a o o s aying wi h he s a us quo, a he
han jus unde s anding ha we’d been asked o mo e
o wa d and make i wo k. We managed o come up wi h a
me hodology ha enabled a p ocess ha le some oom o
lexibili y. I hink i was e y success ul. The ac ha he
me hodology was c a ed by membe s wi hin ICOM who in
a sense ep esen ed he wo supposed g oups helped. The
i didn’ eally exis wi hin ICOM be o e. Somehow, he
poli iciza ion o he de ini ion p ocess led o he e being
his sense o wo g oups.
So he wo k ha we did was emendously challenging
and we had o inco po a e bo h o hose supposed g oups.
The expe iences B uno and I ha e had in he las se e al
mon hs, aking pa in webina s and such, made us awa e
ha he e a e mo e p og essi e commi ees, egions,
coun ies, na ional commi ees, in e na ional commi ees,
and mo e conse a i e ones. This is some hing ha he
esul s also show, bu I hink ha ’s jus he na u e o he
spec um o museum wo k a p esen . We’ e inding wha
seems o be a so o middle g ound.
BB: Ou g ea es di icul y h oughou his p ocess was
dealing wi h di e ences o opinion. Bu I would no call i a
eal i and no e en a pola iza ion. I was e y di icul o
ind a consensus among 20 people inside his commi ee
wi h many di e en poin s o iew, bu I can say ha bo h
o us a e e y p oud o his wo k, because i was only
possible o ge o he poin whe e we a e now because we
eally we e able o in ol e e e yone in his p ocess.
We ecen ly launched se e al ounds o consul a ions,
also as a way o measu e he le el o di e si y and he
po en ial con lic s wi hin he o ganiza ion. And we we e
hones ly expec ing much mo e con lic and much mo e
pola iza ion, and wha we ound was eally di e en oices
ying o engage in dialogue. The p oblem o cul u al
ansla ion is a e y ac i e one, because we ha e a de ini-
ion ha ’s ne e going o be uni e sal, bu i is used as a
uni e sal ool. In ou las consul a ion, we p oposed i e
de ini ions, i e p oposals and a leas ou o hem had a
high numbe o o es. And I hink ha ’s a g ea s a emen
o he ac ha Kyo o was no as simple as he media
wan ed o pain he pic u e. I was much mo e complex.
IPH: So a e you confiden o success in P ague?
BB: No a all, because i is a huge p ocess. We a e
always wonde ing, a e we he e ye ? A e we no he e ye ?
We’ e no su e. Bu we know ha we ha e enough ma e ial
o his nex ound o conc e e p oposals. Bu a he same
ime, we also know ha i is a bu eauc a ic p ocess and a
poli ical p ocess. I is impossible o please e e yone, bu
he de ini ion needs o ha e wo hi ds o he o es. So, we
a e no su e ha i is going o pass. Bu wha we would like
o be su e o is ha we did e e y hing we could.
LBM: To keep he cu en de ini ion, only one hi d o
he o he o ing membe s need o say we don’ wan a
change and ha ’s enough no o change, because we need
wo hi ds o make a change. Tha ’s jus he way i is. Bu i
a new de ini ion does no pass in P ague, I don’ know wha
he o ganiza ion’s going o do. I would be a si ua ion
whe e i is like, now wha happens? Because we ied many
di e en ways, we consul ed and consul ed and consul ed
o he poin o exhaus ion. And we’ e done i as objec i ely
wi hin a ield ha is so emendously subjec i e.
LB: I wan o applaud B uno and Lau a o he g ea
wo k ha you’ e doing. I hink he ques ion in my mind is:
his p ocess no only explo ed he di e si y o museums; I
hink i explo ed he issu es ha sepa a e us. So, one o he
ques ions in my mind is how do we heal, ega dless o
whe he i passes o no ? Wha a e he s eps o heal as an
o ganiza ion? Because I hink he e a e a lo o people ha I
alked o a ICOM-US and o he s, who say i is beyond he
de ini ion now. I is now a ques ion o , is his an o gani-
za ion ha can emb ace he o ali y o who we a e? So, he
ques ion o me is, wha do we pu in place o heal,
ega dless o he one hi d o he wo hi ds?
LBM: I makes me hink o he e y ecen ex e nal
e iew documen ha o e s some ideas o how he o ga-
niza ion can heal. I ’ll be in e es ing o see i people
emb ace he new p oposed de ini ion o no . Possibly, jus
possibly, i i is emb aced, hen people will also emb ace
he p ocess and he changes ha wen abou wi h his
p ocess. So i is eally in e es ing o us o hea , o me o
hea Be nice alk abou 1999 and pe iods o c isis and he
g ea amoun o consensus ha was eached wi hin wo
yea s. Bu I don’ belie e we would in any way in 2022 ha e
ha gene al sense o e e ybody o ing in he same di ec-
ion as i used o be. I emembe going o p e ious mee ings
and e e ybody jus o ed yea abou e e y hing ha was
ecommended. And in 2019 i was like, wow, his is
exci ing. Some hing’s happening. And so I hink ha i is
possible ha we will be able o emb ace he opening up o
he p ocess has been emendously mul i- ocal all along
he way, pa icipa o y in ways ha ICOM has ne e been
be o e. We could p obably imp o e me hods o pa icipa-
ion and so on. Many hings a e going o be necessa y
o es o e ai h in ou o ganiza ion. Bu maybe, i a new
de ini ion is app o ed, i can kind o help s a ha healing
p ocess.
BM: I ha e e e y con idence in he wo ld ha a new
de ini ion will go h ough in P ague. I i s con on ed he
some imes-ex ao dina y cul u e o hose mee ings many
yea s ago (when I i s a ended an ICOM mee ing in Pa is,
in 1994) and someone said ha i s uden s we e admi ed o
ICOM, he would lea e. And I emembe suddenly inding
26 A. E ges and D. Dean
mysel on my ee , which I ne e in ended o be, s anding
up and being gi en he mic ophone o say: “In my opinion,
an o ganiza ion ha did no hink abou i s young mem-
be s was an o ganiza ion ha didn’ ca e abou i s u u e!”
Bu you see i all comes back o ca e ul consul a ion
and p ocess. One o he 57 o ganiza ional e o ms ha we e
adop ed in 2001 (in Ba celona) was ha he e would be a
pe cen age o s uden membe s admi ed o ICOM –again,
wi hou objec ion. I’m u ning o speak now wi h ex ao -
dina y admi a ion and huge confidence: ha he esul s o
he wo k ha B uno and Lau an ha e ca ied h ough so
ho oughly since 2019 ha e e e y chance o p oducing a
new ICOM museum defini ion ha will be accep ed (in
P ague, Augus 2022).
By he way, ICOM does no need o seek a de ini ion o si
on op o o he defini ional documen s in he museums
wo ld, bu o p o ide an ancho ing defini ion in i s o gani-
za ion and S a u es, connec ing o o he co e documen s.
Tha gi es us a baseline o all o hese collec i e and a ied
defini ional e o s wo ldwide –no si ing on op bu benea h
hem; no ep essing o he e o s, bu in ac welcoming hem
and ein o cing cul u al di e si y, inclusi eness, and
compa a i e achie emen s ac oss he wo ld o museums.
The e will be o he documen s ha may be much mo e
ambi ious, go much u he and o e much mo e de ail on
specific issues ha a e eme ging and will con inue o eme ge.
My poin comes back o picking up all o hose inno-
a o y ene gies and ca ying hem o wa d. C ea ing
an In e na ional Obse a o y o p og essi e museum
de elopmen s as a dedica ed body wi hin ICOM could be
pa o ICOM’s ongoing wo k o suppo inno a ion and
p omo e museums’social impac . No single idea would be
imposed on any membe s o Commi ees; ins ead you
would be ha es ing mul iple ideas, p og ams, ini ia i es
om di e en con ex s ac oss he whole o ganiza ion;
and ha would ha e an i iga ion e ec o ICOM’swo k
as a global body.
MR: As o he s, I jus wan o applaud he an as ic wo k
ha was done o he las h ee yea s by ICOM De ine and
he consul a ions ha ook place. My only ques ion is
abou s a egy. Do you ha e plans o P ague? The s a egy
o a mee ing is almos as impo an as he con en o ha
mee ing.
BB: The eason why we had ou ounds o consul a-
ion was o allow he mos commi ees o pa icipa e. So a ,
we ha e had esponses om 116 commi ees. I is be ween
70 and 80 pe cen o he whole o ganiza ion, which is a
ma k ha we ne e eally eached be o e in o he consul-
a ions. Bu we did no only wan mos o he commi ees o
pa icipa e, we wan ed a b oad geog aphic dis ibu ion.
The wo No h Ame ican commi ees pa icipa ed, and in
he second place was La in Ame ica, wi h 68 pe cen
pa icipa ing, which was a highe pe cen age han in
Eu ope. Bu i was in consul a ion 2 ha we ealized ha
he e we e less A ican commi ees pa icipa ing and so we
o ganized webina s in ol ing A ican commi ees and
also ied o iden i y why hey we e ha ing di icul y in
pa icipa ing. Some commi ees a e s ill es ablishing hem-
sel es, o ha e e y ew membe s, and i was especially
di icul du ing he pandemic. We had a highe a e o
pa icipa ion om A ica in he ollowing consul a ion hanks
o all hese p ocesses in ol ed. So i has been a lea ning
cu e o us o eally know how he di e en commi ees
wo k. We’ e now going o wo k on he wo op de ini ions, he
wo op p oposals om he i e, and we a e going o conside
all hecommen s,e e y hing ha wascollec eddu ing
consul a ions ou o p esen o he ICOM Ad iso y Council
o a inal decision on which de ini ion is o be o ed. In he
end will a i e a one inal de ini ion o p esen in P ague.
LBM: I wasn’ di icul o ge he Eu opeans o pa ici-
pa e. They eel like he bigges s ake holde s, whe eas
pe haps in o he pa s o he wo ld, people had been a bi
mo e eluc an o pa icipa e. So we did an ex ao dina y
amoun o webina s h oughou a yea and a hal whe e we
we e in i ed by commi ees who asked us o come alk o
hem abou his p ocess because you know, you ge he
email, bu he email is jus so d y. Ha ing i p esen ed made
commi ees eel mo e emb aced and so hey ook pa . The
A ican example was jus p obably he mos e iden , bu his
happened in di e en egions a ound he wo ld. Wi h ICOM
A ab i was o he ICOM De ine membe s om he egion who
made an e o and held an ac i i y he e. The in en ion has
always been o y o ge as much as we can om a ound he
wo ld and o make e e ybody pa icipa e and eel in i ed o
his consul a ion p ocess.
We a e p oposing a de ini ion o 2022, bu i can’ eally
s op he e. One o he hings ha was eally in e es ing
h oughou his p ocess has been o wi ness how en iching
he con e sa ions ha e been. Many o hem wi hin com-
mi ees hemsel es. They ne e held webina s o jus alk
abou wha museums a e abou . And now hey we e, and
hey we e seeing colleagues wi h di e en mindse s and
how you can lea n om each o he . Tha ’s eally an
impo an lesson om his en i e p ocess. And also how
impo an i is o gi e mo e emphasis on egional wo k
wi hin ICOM: s eng hening he egional alliances and
ha ing people eel ha hey ha e spaces o discuss close o
home and hen ake pa in he global con e sa ion.
Be nice, I lo e you op imism abou i . We a e e y
cau iously op imis ic abou he esul s.
The In e na ional Council o Museums and he Con o e sy abou a New Museum De ini ion 27