Wood, Ad ian; Hein, Eckha d; La oie, Ma c
A icle
P o i ma gins a e de e mined by he need o companies
o gene a e enough in e nal inance o pay o hei
in es men ': In e iew wi h Ad ian Wood
Eu opean Jou nal o Economics and Economic Policies: In e en ion (EJEEP)
P o ided in Coope a ion wi h:
Edwa d Elga Publishing
Sugges ed Ci a ion: Wood, Ad ian; Hein, Eckha d; La oie, Ma c (2024) : P o i ma gins a e de e mined
by he need o companies o gene a e enough in e nal inance o pay o hei in es men ':
In e iew wi h Ad ian Wood, Eu opean Jou nal o Economics and Economic Policies: In e en ion
(EJEEP), ISSN 2052-7772, Edwa d Elga Publishing, Chel enham, Vol. 21, Iss. 3, pp. 363-369,
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‘P o i ma gins a e de e mined
by heneed o companies o
gene a e enough in e nal
inance o pay o hei
in es men ’
In e iew wi h Ad ian Wood
Ad ian Wood is P o esso Eme i us o In e na ional De elopmen a he Uni e si y o Ox o d.
Among pos -Keynesian economis s, he is bes known o his 1975 book, ATheo yo P o i s,
which es ablishes a link be ween p o i ma gins and g ow h a es. Wood was an unde g adua e
a King’s College in he Uni e si y o Camb idge. A e wo yea s a Ha a d Uni e si y, he
ob ained his PhD in Economics in 1972 a Camb idge, and augh he e un il 1977. He hen
wo ked un il 1985 a he Wo ld Bank, including i e yea s on China, a e which he joined he
Ins i u e o De elopmen S udies a he Uni e si y o Sussex, and la e became Chie Economis
o he UK’s Depa men o In e na ional De elopmen . Wood was he gues o honou a he
2023 Lille Pos Keynesian Con e ence.
How did you s a as an economis and how did you come ac oss uncon en ional, he e odox,
Keynesian, o pos -Keynesian economics?
I was able o s udy economics as a high school subjec in my las wo yea s a a B i ish
boa ding school, called B yans on, om 1961 o 1963, whe e I was augh by an inspi ing
economics mas e . Bu I was e en mo e inspi ed by wha he was eaching. I will ne e
o ge he class in which he explained he Keynesian mul iplie model and he ci cula low
o income, including he mul iplie equa ion. I had always been e y in e es ed in poli ical,
economic and social issues, bu I was jus as onished ha such a simple appa a us could enable
one o unde s and so much abou undamen al concep s and he undamen al hings
ha we e happening in he economy, o ins ance, unemploymen . I was an absolu ely
eye-opening momen . I ha e ne e los my a ec ion o basic, simple Keynesian models.
How did you ge o Camb idge?
I applied o Camb idge, and when I wen o be in e iewed, I was planning o ead –
meaning s udy –his o y because he wo subjec s I had eally enjoyed a school we e
his o y and economics. Bo h had e y inspi ing eache s and bo h I was deeply in e -
es ed in. The u o in King’s who in e iewed me, said: ‘Oh, I hink you should ead
economics’. So, I hough : ‘Well, he mus know a lo abou hings’. I swi ched o he
economics en ance exams and ended up as an economis .
And who we e he p o esso s and lec u e s who ha e imp essed you mos while you we e in
Camb idge?
In e iew
This is an open access wo k
Eu opean Jou nal o Economics and Economic Policies: In e en ion, Vol. 21 No. 3, 2024, pp. 363–369
Fi s published online: Ap il 2024; doi: 10.4337/ejeep.2024.0128
Jou nal compila ion © 2024 Edwa d Elga Publishing L d
© 2024 The Au ho
My i s supe iso was Robin Ma is, who made a huge imp ession on me, which las ed
h ough he whole o my ca ee (Wood 2017). A e one e m, hough, he ook lea e o
wo k o a newly elec ed Labou go e nmen –in a minis y o which many yea s la e
I became chie economis –and his eaching was aken o e by his o me esea ch o ice ,
Aji Singh, who also made a deep imp ession on me. In my second yea , my main supe iso
was Luigi Pasine i, who again had a huge in luence. Among o he hings, in a u o ial in
which we we e discussing he Camb idge Kaldo ian heo y o dis ibu ion, he said o me
and my ellow s uden : ‘Why don’ you y es ing i empi ically?’. We hough , how
could we do his? Bu we had a li le go, jus as a one-week essay assignmen . A e I g adua ed
and wen o Ha a d o a couple o yea s, hough, I disco e ed compu e s. Empi ical wo k
suddenly wen beyond slide ules and log ables. One o he hings I applied mysel o was
con inuing wi h he idea ha Luigi had gi en me o es ing he Kaldo ian heo y
o dis ibu ion, and I w o e a couple o e m pape s on ha . They became he basis o a dis-
se a ion ha I submi ed o King’s, on he s eng h o which I was awa ded a esea ch ellow-
ship. I has o be said, o cou se, ha he ellowship elec o s o King’s included a P o esso
Kaldo , which I hink may ha e in luenced his ou come! The e ha e been many chance
occu ences.
You hen wen o Ha a d?
I was a Ha a d o wo yea s, om 1967 o 1969. A he poin when I g adua ed om
Camb idge and wen o Ha a d, i wasn’ clea o me ha I wan ed o spend my ca ee
as ei he an economis o an academic. In ha pe iod he Economics T ipos in Cam-
b idge included all he social sciences, and I had become pa icula ly in e es ed in sociol-
ogy, aking mo e sociology special exam pape s in my inal yea han economics special
pape s. I had also been in e es ed in economics ini ially because I saw i as a way o
imp o ing he wo ld, and I hough , ‘well, p obably, i you wan o imp o e he
wo ld, you ough o go ou and ac ually wo k in i , using you economics knowledge’.
Fo una ely, Ha a d o e ed me he oppo uni y o hedge my be s by en olling in wha
was called a Mas e ’s deg ee in Public Adminis a ion. Since hen, Ha a d has u ned
ha in o a Mas e ’s deg ee in Public Policy, which is a p ope augh cou se, e y well s uc-
u ed, bu i was hen an ex ao dina y p og am. You could ake any g adua e cou ses you
liked, subjec o he app o al o he a he o midable, a he a is oc a ic Ame ican lady
who was he adminis a o o he p og am, called Ge ude Manley. As i happens, hough,
wi h one pa ial excep ion in he Law School, all he cou ses I ook we e in economics,
because he e we e all so s o hings going on a Ha a d ha I had no lea ned abou
a Camb idge.
Wha exac ly did you ge om Ha a d ha you hadn’ go en in Camb idge, UK?
The main hing was se ious econome ic wo k, using compu e s, and a lo o eaching
ha wen wi h ha . Wha I didn’ do was o en ol o he economic heo y cou ses o
he i s wo yea s o an Ame ican PhD. Ha a d also o e ed an oppo uni y o combine
economics wi h wha , as you will emembe , was my long-s anding in e es in his o y. A
mo e senio g adua e s uden whom I me when I go he e said: ‘You should ake
Ge schenk on’scou seoneconomichis o y’. I accep ed his ad ice. Mos o my Kaldo -
ian empi ical wo k, mo eo e , was done as pape s o ha cou se, using a long se ies o
da a kindly p o ided by Cha les Feins ein, a dis inguished Camb idge economic his o -
ian on sabba ical a Ha a d. So, in my a emp o make some so o a es o he he-
o y, I was looking back o e 100 yea s, and no jus a he sho - un da a I had used in
Camb idge.
364 Eu opean Jou nal o Economics and Economic Policies: In e en ion, Vol. 21 No. 3
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And hen you wen back o Camb idge because he e was his book ha you edi ed wi h Robin
Ma is on he co po a e economy (Ma is/Wood 1971) …
No qui e, bu he e was a connec ion. Robin Ma is was on sabba ical a Ha a d he i s
yea I was he e and I ook he cou se he ga e. As an unde g adua e in Camb idge I had
ead his book, Manage ial Capi alism (Ma is 1964), a ended his hi d-yea lec u es on i ,
and ead a lo o ela ed li e a u e in economics and sociology o a special-subjec inal
exam pape . My in e es in he subjec mo i a ed me o ake his second-semes e Ha a d
cou se, a e aking in he i s semes e a join economics/law school cou se on an i- us
policy. Ma is also de eloped a p ojec on he co po a e economy as pa o Ha a d’s e y
well- unded p og am on Technology and Socie y, and hi ed me as a esea ch assis an .
The p ojec culmina ed in a con e ence a he end o my second yea a Ha a d, a ended
by a s a cas o mains eam economis s. Tha con e ence e en ually yielded he edi ed
olume ha Robin and I pu oge he in my i s yea back in Camb idge (Ma is/
Wood 1971).
And hen you s a ed o you con inued you wo k on A Theo y o P o i s (Wood 1975), which
hen became p obably you mos amous publica ion, a leas o us. Wha was he mo e
owa ds ha ?
I e u ned o King’s as a junio esea ch ellow, which o mos people was a pos -doc posi-
ion, bu I didn’ ha e a doc o a e. So, I egis e ed o a PhD in Economics a Camb idge
and used my ime in ha pos o w i e a hesis on income dis ibu ion, an aspec o econom-
ics which I had seen as impo an om he beginning. The Facul y assigned as my supe -
iso Da id Champe nowne, who had done pa h-b eaking wo k on he in e -pe sonal size
dis ibu ion o income. He was a e y cle e , e y nice man, bu a e y elaxed, laid-back
supe iso who somehow el ha he shouldn’ y o di ec me, allowing me o do wha
I wan ed, wi h guidance and assis ance as I wen along. I was an ex ao dina y si ua ion,
looking back on i . I ended up w i ing a pu ely heo e ical hesis, wi h no empi ical
wo k. One hal o i was pulling oge he he Ma is heo y o he i m wi h he Kaldo
mac o heo y. The o he hal o he hesis was on he de e minan s o ela i e pay
(Wood 1978). Tha choice was in luenced no by any Camb idge economis , bu by
one pa icula book, The Social Founda ions o Wage Policy (Woo on 1955). I s a gumen
ha no ma i e conce ns abou ela i e wages we e a d i e o ou comes in he labou ma -
ke s uck me as plausible, and connec ed wi h my ea lie en husiasm o sociology.
Richa d Kahn a Camb idge was also much conce ned wi h he wage–wage in la ion ques ion.
Is he e any ela ionship be ween his second pa o you hesis on he heo y o pay and you
la e wo k whe e you we e conside ing he issue o skilled labou e sus unskilled labou (Wood
1994; 1995)? Do you see any ela ionship be ween his ea lie in e es and you la e wo k?
The e is a clea ela ion in e ms o he subjec ma e . The hesis s emmed om my in e -
es in ela i e incomes o all so s, and much la e , when I s a ed wo king on he impac
o No h–Sou h ade on inequali y in bo h de eloped and de eloping coun ies, I was
going back o ha a ea o in e es . Less ob iously, he e was also an analy ical connec ion.
In my analysis o he impac on skilled and unskilled wo ke s in de eloped coun ies o
mo e ade wi h de eloping coun ies, I dis inguished be ween he ou comes ha you
would ge wi h ully lexible ma ke -de e mined wages –a ise in inequali y, which I iden-
i ied wi h wha was happening in he Uni ed S a es –and he ou comes you would ge
whe e he e we e no ma i e social and poli ical cons ain s on how much wage ela i i ies
could widen, as in Eu ope, leading o a ise in unskilled unemploymen .
In e iew wi h Ad ian Wood 365
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Le us mo e back o he i s pa o he hesis. I (Eckha d Hein) always asked mysel how you
would ela e you 1975 book, A Theo y o P o i s, o he mo e o less simul aneous wo k by
Ha cou /Kenyon (1976) and by Al ed Eichne (1976), which also es ablished he link
be ween in es men and p icing. Wha is special in you wo k, which is no in he o he
wo ks, and ha e hese con ibu ions de eloped independen ly o each o he ?
I ’s an in e es ing bi o his o y. Al hough I knew Geo Ha cou , ini ially om a end-
ing his lec u es as an unde g adua e, e y much admi ed him, and had hanked him in
he p e ace o my 1975 book o commen s, p obably on my hesis, I knew no hing o
hewo khehaddoneinAus aliawi hPe e Kenyonun ila e mybookcameou ,
when, ha ing seen a e iew o i , hey w o e me a a he wo ied join le e . They
also sen me a copy o he pape hey had submi ed o Kyklos (Ha cou /Kenyon
1976), on which I sen hem a le e wi h commen s and a compa ison wi h my
book. The copy o he book I had ea lie pos ed o Geo did no a i e o ano he
mon h, bu a e a quick look a i , and be o e ecei ing my le e , he w o e again o
say ha he had concluded ha he ideas in hei a icle s emmed mainly om his
own ea lie wo k.
The Al ed Eichne s o y is e y di e en , and was w i en up, using his and my iles, by
F ed Lee (2000). Al came o Camb idge in he Sp ing o 1972, when I me him, go o
know him a bi , and ealised ha he was wo king on some hing closely ela ed o my own
wo k –a ha poin I had no ye s a ed o u n he i s hal o my hesis in o he book
on p o i s. Al was ha ing se ious di icul y in ge ing anybody o publish his wo k, bu
I was able o help him o publish an a icle in he Economic Jou nal (Eichne 1973)
and o pe suade he Camb idge Uni e si y P ess o accep his book (Eichne 1976).
We co esponded abou wha he needed odo oge hebookpublished; hemain
hing was o sho en i d as ically. I was a e y small wo ld in Camb idge in hose
days.Somebodye enasjunio asme,whoknew heedi o so heEconomic Jou nal,
one o whom was Champe nowne, could ecommend an a icle o conside a ion and
ge in ol ed in i s e e eeing. La e , as a happy ending, Al’s book was published.
The undamen al, impo an , simila i y be ween he Eichne and Wood books is he idea
ha p o i ma gins a e de e mined by he need o companies o gene a e enough in e nal
inance o pay o hei in es men . They need o expand capaci y o g ow, so g ow h max-
imisa ion and p o i e en ion a e closely ela ed. The de ails a e e y di e en , howe e .
Subs an i ely, Al Eichne belie ed ha his mechanism was deeply associa ed wi h oligo-
poly, so his model had o be an oligopoly model. I was much mo e open-minded, and
hough ha his mechanism and my model would i wi h many so s o ma ke s uc u es.
I also se i ou in a way ha was a lo simple . As you know, I ha e a wo-cu e diag am,
which would appeal o his encing Olympian (Ma c La oie), wo c ossed swo ds, whe eas
Al had a ou -segmen phase diag am, and I’m no su e wha Olympic spo ha would
co espond o! No only, hough, was Al’s book a g ea con ibu ion, bu he also helped
o pu pos -Keynesian economics on he mains eam ada (Eichne /K egel 1975).
So, a e hese ew yea s in Camb idge, you wen in o he eal wo ld and go a job ou side aca-
demia. You mos ci ed wo k emana ing om his pe iod, I (Ma c La oie) ound ou , is you
book on No h-Sou h T ade, Employmen and Inequali y (Wood 1994). And ha ’s whe e
you deal wi h his skilled–unskilledlabou dicho omymen ionedea lie .Howdidyouge
in e es ed in his opic?
I was almos by acciden ha I joined he Wo ld Bank in 1977, ha ing ini ially sough a job
in he IMF –wi h an in oduc ion om Richa d Kahn –and in ended o s ay o only wo
366 Eu opean Jou nal o Economics and Economic Policies: In e en ion, Vol. 21 No. 3
© 2024 The Au ho Jou nal compila ion © 2024 Edwa d Elga Publishing L d
yea s be o e e u ning o Camb idge. Tha u ned in o eigh , howe e , du ing he las i e o
which I had he amazing expe ience o wo king on China in he ea ly s ages o i s economic
sys em e o m. My inal ask was o coo dina e and con ibu e o he w i ing o a majo
epo on he long- e m u u e o he Chinese economy (Wo ld Bank 1985, Wood
2018a). We sugges ed, among o he hings, ha China should ealise i s po en ial o man-
u ac u ed expo s and no ely simply on expo ing oil and a ew commodi ies. While we
we e discussing a d a o he epo wi h Chinese academics and coun e pa s in Beijing,
one asked: ‘China is huge, i we do wha you ad oca e, how will ha i in o he es o
he wo ld economy?’I simply couldn’ answe his ques ion, bu nei he could I o ge i .
When I came back o academia in he UK in 1985 –a he Ins i u e o De elopmen S u-
dies a Sussex –i u ned in o he ques ion I decided o pu sue in my esea ch: how was he
expansion o labou -in ensi e expo s o de eloped coun ies by de eloping coun ies going
o a ec bo h so s o coun ies –including, in he case o China, no jus de eloped coun-
ies, bu also o he de eloping coun ies (Maye /Wood 2011)? I ook me a long ime o
p o ide an ini ial answe in ha book, a e which I wen on o do a lo mo e wo k.
Bu he e is s ill a con o e sy going on, abou whe he he all in he ela i e posi ion o he
low-skilled wo ke s is due o ade and globalisa ion o due o echnical change ha would be in
a ou o he highly-skilled wo ke s. Wha is you iew now, 30 yea s a e you 1994 book?
My iew has always been ha bo h o ces we e a wo k and we e ela ed o each o he .
Technical change was one cause o globalisa ion and was also d i en pa ly by economic
p essu es a ising om globalisa ion. My emphasis on he impo ance o globalisa ion
(Wood 1998) made me unpopula wi h ade economis s, who we e doing e e y hing
hey could o show ha he in luence o globalisa ion on de eloped-coun y wages was mini-
mal, ou o ea ha saying o he wise would esul in p o ec ionism. I also was e y wo ied
abou ha isk: as a de elopmen economis , I was a guing ha i he No h didn’ use
domes ic policies o add ess his inequali y p oblem, he e would indeed be a p o ec ionis
backlash, which would hu de eloping coun ies. My line was: don’ y o p e end his isn’
happening; ecognise i and do some hing abou i ! Bu as I said, ha made me unpopula .
The e was a long deba e abou ade and wages in he 1990s, in which I was on he losing
side. The economics p o ession decided collec i ely ha globalisa ion migh be a bi mo e
impo an han people had p e iously hough , bu ha i wasn’ he undamen al cause o
he p oblem. Then he issue wen o sleep un il he mid-2010s, when ano he gene a ion o
economis s looked pa icula ly a he Ame ican labou ma ke and ound ha China had
ac ually had a big impac (Au o e al. 2021). I w o e a e ospec i e a icle on he ade
and wages deba e (Wood 2018b). I acknowledges signi ican laws in my o iginal analysis,
and has an anodyne i le, bu on my compu e he name o ha olde is ‘I old you so’!
How did you ca ee con inue a e you posi ion a he Ins i u e o De elopmen S udies a
Sussex?
I was appoin ed as Chie Economis o he UK’s Depa men o In e na ional De elop-
men , and wo ked he e o i e yea s, om 2000 o 2005. A e I le he go e nmen ,
I augh a Ox o d o ano he nine yea s, whe e I am now P o esso Eme i us. Tha
b ough me o he o mal end o a e y a ied ca ee .
Indeed, e y a ied. Based on ha , do you ha e any ad ice o gi e o ou younge pos -Keynesian
colleagues?
I is e y in e es ing and ins uc i e o wo k in bo h academic and policy jobs du ing a
ca ee as an economis , bu no an easy hing o do and has become, I hink, e en ha de
In e iew wi h Ad ian Wood 367
© 2024 The Au ho Jou nal compila ion © 2024 Edwa d Elga Publishing L d
in ecen yea s. Mo ing be ween he wo so s o jobs is asymme ical: i ’s qui e easy o go
om an academic job in o a policy job, much mo e di icul o come back in o academia
a e mo e han a yea o wo ou o i . E en mo e so, o cou se, i you we e ne e in i : so
my ad ice is ha i you hink you migh wan o spend pa o you economis ca ee as
an academic, s a in academia, o se e al yea s, no in a policy job.
Okay, so hen hank you e y much!
The in e iew was conduc ed by Eckha d Hein and Ma c La oie a he Lille Pos Keynesian
Con e ence in Decembe 2023. We hank Samuel Küppe s, Be lin School o Economics and
Law, o he ansc ip ion.
SELECTED PUBLICATIONS OF ADRIAN WOOD
Ande son, E., Tang, P., Wood, A. (2006): Globalisa ion, co-ope a ion cos s and wage inequali ies,
in: Ox o d Economic Pape s, 58(4), 569–595.
Ma is, R., Wood, A. (eds) (1971): The Co po a e Economy: G ow h, Compe i ion, and Inno a i e
Po en ial, London: Macmillan.
Maye , J., Wood, A. (2011): Has China de-indus ialised o he de eloping coun ies?, in: Re iew o
Wo ld Economics, 147(2), 325–350.
Ro unno, L., Wood, A. (2020): Wage inequali y and skill supplies in a globalised wo ld, in: Jou nal
o Compa a i e Economics, 48(3), 529–547.
Wood, A. (1975): A Theo y o P o i s, Camb idge, UK: Camb idge Uni e si y P ess.
Wood, A. (1978): A Theo y o Pay, Camb idge, UK: Camb idge Uni e si y P ess.
Wood, A. (1994): No h-Sou h T ade, Employmen and Inequali y: Changing Fo unes in a Skill-
D i en Wo ld, Ox o d, UK: Ox o d Uni e si y P ess.
Wood, A. (1995): How ade hu unskilled wo ke s, in: Jou nal o Economic Pe spec i es,9(3),57–80.
Wood, A. (1997): Openness and wage inequali y in de eloping coun ies: he La in Ame ican chal-
lenge o Eas Asian con en ional wisdom, in: Wo ld Bank Economic Re iew, 11(1), 33–57.
Wood, A. (1998): Globalisa ion and he ise in labou ma ke inequali ies, in: Economic Jou nal,
108(450), 1463–1482.
Wood, A. (2017): Robin Ma is (1924–2012), in: Co d, R. (ed), The Palg a e Companion o Cam-
b idge Economics, Volume II, London: Palg a e Macmillan, 893–914.
Wood, A. (2018a): China: long- e m de elopmen issues and op ions, pas and p esen , in: Jingji
Shehui Tizhi Bijiao,98(5),1–30 (in Chinese, English ansla ion in TMCD Wo king Pape ,
No 079, Uni e si y o Ox o d).
Wood, A. (2018b): The 1990s ade and wages deba e in e ospec , in: Wo ld Economy, 41(4), 975–999.
Wood, A. (2023): Land abundance, openness, and indus ialisa ion, in: Wo ld T ade Re iew, 22(3–4),
312–322.
Wo ld Bank (1985): China: Long-Te m De elopmen Issues and Op ions, Bal imo e and London:
Johns Hopkins Uni e si y P ess (au ho , among o he s, A. Wood).
FURTHER REFERENCES
Au o , D., Do n, D., Hanson, G. (2021): On he pe sis ence o he China shock, in: B ookings
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