Interview with Robert A. Blecker

Blecke , Robe A.; Hein, Eckha d; La oie, Ma c A icle In e iew wi h Robe A. Blecke Eu opean Jou nal o Economics and Economic Policies: In e en ion (EJEEP) P o ided in Coope a ion wi h: Edwa d Elga Publishing Sugges ed Ci a ion: Blecke , Robe A.; Hein, Eckha d; La oie, Ma c (2018) : In e iew wi h Robe A. Blecke , Eu opean Jou nal o Economics and Economic Policies: In e en ion (EJEEP), ISSN 2052-7772, Edwa d Elga Publishing, Chel enham, Vol. 15, Iss. 3, pp. 250-258, h ps://doi.o g/10.4337/ejeep.2018.03.01 This Ve sion is a ailable a : h ps://hdl.handle.ne /10419/277425 S anda d-Nu zungsbedingungen: Die Dokumen e au EconS o dü en zu eigenen wissenscha lichen Zwecken und zum P i a geb auch gespeiche und kopie we den. Sie dü en die Dokumen e nich ü ö en liche ode komme zielle Zwecke e iel äl igen, ö en lich auss ellen, ö en lich zugänglich machen, e eiben ode ande wei ig nu zen. So e n die Ve asse die Dokumen e un e Open-Con en -Lizenzen (insbesonde e CC-Lizenzen) zu Ve ügung ges ell haben soll en, gel en abweichend on diesen Nu zungsbedingungen die in de do genann en Lizenz gewäh en Nu zungs ech e. Te ms o use: Documen s in EconS o may be sa ed and copied o you pe sonal and schola ly pu poses. You a e no o copy documen s o public o comme cial pu poses, o exhibi he documen s publicly, o make hem publicly a ailable on he in e ne , o o dis ibu e o o he wise use he documen s in public. I he documen s ha e been made a ailable unde an Open Con en Licence (especially C ea i e Commons Licences), you may exe cise u he usage igh s as speci ied in he indica ed licence. h ps://c ea i ecommons.o g/licenses/by/4.0/ ‘People will come sea ching o us pos -Keynesians i he poli ical a mosphe e is encou aging’ In e iew wi h Robe A. Blecke Robe A. Blecke is a P o esso in he Depa men o Economics, Ame ican Uni e si y (AU), Washing on, DC, USA. He is also a Resea ch Associa e o he Economic Policy Ins i u e (EPI), Washing on, DC, USA and a Fellow o he Fo um o Mac oeconomics and Mac oeconomic Policies (FMM). He has published widely on open-economy pos -Keynesian models, No h Ame ican in eg a ion, he Mexican economy, global imbalances, expo -led g ow h, and ade heo y and policy. He se es on he edi o ial boa ds o he Eu opean Jou nal o Economics and Economic Policies: In e en ion as well as he In e na ional Jou nal o Poli ical Economy,In e na ional Re iew o Applied Economics,In es igación Económica,Me oeconomica and Re iew o Keynesian Economics. The i s ques ion we would like o ask is: how did you ge in e es ed in he e odox economics and pos -Keynesian economics in pa icula ? Wha we e you i s con ac s wi h pos -Keynesian economis s? Who go you in e es ed in he subjec ? My i s exposu e o any kind o economics was p obably a bi unusual: I ead Tho s ein Veblen’sTheo y o he Leisu e Class (1899) o a high school his o y cou se in he ea ly 1970s. I was eally cap i a ed by Veblen’s concep s such as conspicuous consump ion and pecunia y emula ion, and I was pe suaded by his gene al iew o consump ion as a means o people o exp ess hei posi ions in mode n social hie a chies. When I s a ed my unde g adua e s udies a Yale in he all o 1974, I signed up o an economics class expec ing i o be like wha I now know was he ins i u ionalis app oach o Veblen. Ins ead, I ound mysel in a cou se on neoclassical mic oeconomics in which we lea ned he heo y o he u ili y-maximising consume , how ma ke s we e op imal and how he consume was so e eign. Because I had ead Veblen, I al eady knew ha his was nonsense. Fo una ely, I had a somewha open-minded p o esso , Raymond Powell, a schola o compa a i e sys ems who exposed us o o he poin s o iew ( o example, he had us deba e ma ke s e sus planning) in he in oduc o y cou ses. Al hough he was e y neoclassical in mic oeconomics, Powell was a solid mains eam Keynesian in mac oeconomics (a e all, Yale was he home o James Tobin). A e ha in oduc ion o mains eam economics, I began sea ching o al e na i es. I s a ed by eading mo e economis s in he ins i u ion- alis adi ion, like John Kenne h Galb ai h, hen I ead some in he neo-Ma xian adi ion, such as Paul Ba an and Paul Sweezy, and e en ually I ead some o he o iginal wo k o Ka l Ma x. Eu opean Jou nal o Economics and Economic Policies: In e en ion, Vol. 15 No. 3, 2018, pp. 250–258 © 2018 The Au ho Jou nal compila ion © 2018 Edwa d Elga Publishing L d The Lypia s, 15 Lansdown Road, Chel enham, Glos GL50 2JA, UK and The William P a House, 9 Dewey Cou , No hamp on MA 01060-3815, USA In my second yea , I ook Da id P. Le ine’s cou ses on he his o y o economic hough and Ma xian economics. La e , I also ook a g adua e semina wi h Le ine, in which we lea ned abou he Camb idge school and wha we e hen called he ‘neo-Keynesians’. In ha cou se, we ead he wo ks o economis s such as Joan Robin- son, MichałKalecki and Jose S eindl, among o he s. In addi ion, S an o d p o esso Donald Ha is isi ed Yale in my senio yea . I ook his cou se on ‘The Theo y o Capi- alis De elopmen ’, in which we s udied Ma xis , Schumpe e ian, and wha I la e ea- lised we e pos -Keynesian pe spec i es (al hough he e m was no much used a he ime). So you hen wen o S an o d Uni e si y o s udy wi h Donald Ha is? Yes, I wen speci ically o wo k wi h Don. I a i ed a S an o d in he all o 1979 when he he e odox economics p og am he e was p obably a i s peak. The e was an olde p o esso named John Gu ley, who had p e iously been an o hodox mone a y economis and hen became a Maois ; he augh Ma xis economics o unde g adua es, bu didn’ do any esea ch. Duncan Foley had been a S an o d in he mid 1970s, bu he had been denied enu e abou a yea be o e I a i ed. Tha le Ha is as he only p o esso doing se ious heo e ical wo k in he e odox economics, o ‘poli ical economy’as we called i a he ime. Many o he S an o d economics p o esso s we e qui e conse a i e o eac iona y, pa ly as a esul o he in luence o he Hoo e Ins i u ion, bu he e we e o he s who we e in ellec ually in e es ing and inno- a i e schola s especially in economic his o y and mic o heo y. And Don did a e i ic job o compensa ing o his isola ion a S an o d by b inging in a s eady s eam o isi o s (including Paul Da idson and Hyman Minsky, among many o he s) o make p esen a ions in ou poli- ical economy semina . Don was a e y inspi ing eache and men o . He augh a g adua e cou se on heo ies o g ow h and dis ibu ion, based on his book Capi al Accumula ion and Income Dis ibu ion, which had jus been published in 1978. We lea ned a lo abou he Camb idge capi al con- o e sies, and also abou compa isons o neoclassical, neo-Keynesian and neo-Ma xian app oaches o g ow h heo y. Don was also in e es ed in economic de elopmen and La in Ame ica, which was a plus o me. Coming o you PhD wo k, in S an o d you hen specialised in in e na ional economics? Yes, pa ly, bu I also s udied o he ields. We had a ield called ‘al e na i e app oaches o economic analysis’, which consis ed o Ha is’s cou se on g ow h and dis ibu ion plus a cou se on economic hough . I ook ha ield plus in e na ional economics ( ade and inance). Fo my hi d ield, I wen ou side my depa men and did a mino in poli ical science, whe e I s udied in e na ional poli ical economy wi h Robe Keohane and poli i- cal economy o de elopmen wi h Richa d Fagen. The e we e a ew o he g adua e s uden s in e es ed in al e na i e economics? Ac ually, he e was a la ge coho o such s uden s a S an o d a he ime. We we e a e y disp opo iona e pa o he g adua e s uden popula ion in he la e 1970s and ea ly 1980s – easily a ound a i h o a qua e o he s uden s. Fo example, S e e Fazza i, T acy Mo , Ma ia Flo o and Nilü e Çağa ay we e pa o ha coho , jus o name a ew. Bu by he mid 1980s, he he e odox p og amme began o sh ink. I hink he a i ude o he admis- sions commi ee was di e en , and also he in e es s o he incoming s uden s we e di e - en . O cou se, i was he Reagan e a, so i was a e y conse a i e ime. A e I le S an o d in 1985, I hea d ha he ew emaining s uden s in al e na i e economics we e being os a- cised by hei classma es. In e iew wi h Robe A. Blecke 251 © 2018 The Au ho Jou nal compila ion © 2018 Edwa d Elga Publishing L d I was Ha is who go you in e es ed in Kaleckian models? I was Ha is and Le ine (I i s ead he o iginal wo ks o Kalecki in Le ine’s semina a Yale). Wha we would now call neo-Kaleckian models ( o example, he pape s by Bob Row ho n and Ami a a Du ) we e s a ing o come ou in he ea ly 1980s, bu some o e- unne s o hose we e Don’s a icle in he Aus alian Economic Pape s in 1974 and Tom Asimakopulos’spape in heCanadian Jou nal o Economics in 1975. Those we e e y inspi a ional pape s o a lo o us. Also he Thi lwall model o balance-o -paymen s- cons ained g ow h came ou in 1979, which added a new wis o he Kaldo ian adi ion o expo -led g ow h analysis, and Don s ee ed me o he wo k o John Co nwall who emphasised ha adi ion. I had also s udied s uc u alis de elopmen economics, which led me o he wo k o Lance Taylo –who was doing essen ially neo-Kaleckian modelling bu called i ‘s uc u alis mac oeconomics’. So all o hese ideas we e ‘in he ai ’a he ime. The ea ly neo-Kaleckian models we e called ‘s agna ionis ’because hey implied ha a highe p o i ma k-up o p o i sha e would lead o lowe a es o u ilisa ion and g ow h, in line wi h S eindl’s 1952 heo y o s agna ion in monopoly capi alism. O , in he e minol- ogy ha has become mo e common ecen ly, hey implied ha bo h demand and g ow h we e ‘wage-led’. Howe e , he Ma xian and Robinsonian sides o my aining made me ques ion whe he highe uni labou cos s and lowe p o i s migh no be so good o capi- alis accumula ion. As an in e na ional economis , i occu ed o me ha highe labou cos s could ha e ad e se e ec s on he ade balance. By assuming a lexible ma k-up a e ha was in luenced by ela i e labou cos s, I was able o cons uc an open-economy neo- Kaleckian model in which he nega i e e ec s o highe labou cos s on ne expo s could possibly ou weigh he posi i e e ec s on domes ic demand, and his could e e se he s ag- na ionis o wage-led ou come. In my PhD disse a ion, I ied o combine his neo-Kaleckian model o an open econ- omy wi h a Thi lwall model inco po a ing a balance-o -paymen s cons ain . The e e ees a he Camb idge Jou nal o Economics la e ad ised ha I should ake ou he Thi lwall pa and keep he neo-Kaleckian pa , in wha became my 1989 CJE pape . Meanwhile, Ami Bhadu i isi ed Ha a d and S an o d while he was in he US in he mid 1980s, wo king wi h S e e Ma glin a he o me and Don Ha is a he la e . I saw some ea ly e sions o wha became he Bhadu i–Ma glin model p esen ed a a semina a S an o d a ound 1985 and la e a he T ies e summe school in 1987. I could see ha hey we e ocusing on he in es men unc ion, and he ad ice I go om hem was o concen a e on he open- economy aspec , which was less impo an in hei s o y. So he e was a clea di ision o labou be ween Blecke and Bhadu i–Ma glin in he la e 1980s when bo h pape s came ou . Then, a e a pe iod o ou o i e yea s, he empi ical wo k on hese pape s go s a ed. Has he e been any hing ela ed o you pape in be ween? Because a he ime he e e encewasusually oBhadu i–Ma glin (1990), no so much o you pape which was published one yea ea lie . The e’s no doub ha he Bhadu i–Ma glin model ecei ed mo e a en ion. They we e be e known in e na ionally –bo h we e al eady op schola s in he e odox economics, while I was a ‘newly min ed’PhD –so hei wo k ecei ed ins an ecogni ion. Ne e he- less, some schola s in he ield (such as Lance Taylo and Ami a a Du ) did ecognise and ci e my wo k, and a ew o my o me AU g adua e s uden s wen on o do inno a i e wo k in neo-Kaleckian modelling ( o example, S ephanie Seguino, who adap ed i o con- s uc gende ed mac o models). A my end I con inued o publish a ious neo-Kaleckian, pos -Keynesian o s uc u alis models o open economies h oughou he 1990s and 252 Eu opean Jou nal o Economics and Economic Policies: In e en ion, Vol. 15 No. 3 © 2018 The Au ho Jou nal compila ion © 2018 Edwa d Elga Publishing L d 2000s, including wo k on No h–Sou h ade (Blecke 1996), he in e na ional sa ing– in es men co ela ion (Blecke 1997) and gende wage gaps (Blecke /Seguino 2002). Do you hink ha he eason he Bhadu i–Ma glin model had mo e success is ha you s ill had he a e o p o i as one o he a iables in he in es men unc ion, which is always ha d o measu e, whe eas hey had he sha e o p o i s? Yes, Bhadu i and Ma glin did come up wi h an analy ically e y nea model, which emphasised he magni ude o he p o i abili y e ec on in es men compa ed wi h he p opensi y o sa e ou o p o i s as he key de e minan o whe he demand is wage-led o p o i -led ( o a closed economy wi h no sa ing ou o wages). They also came up wi h he cle e e minology o ‘s agna ionis ’and ‘exhila a ionis ’ egimes o dis inguish he wage-led e sus p o i -led cases, espec i ely. Al hough i was heo e ically cle e and con enien , Bhadu i and Ma glin’s ocus on he p o i sha e may ul ima ely p o e o ha e been somewha o a dis ac ion. A e all, income dis ibu ion is endogenous, and he eal ques ion is how he unde lying social o ces, s uc u al changes and policy a iables ha a ec bo h dis ibu ion and demand cause changes in endogenous a iables such as u ilisa ion, g ow h, employmen , eal wages (o he wage sha e) and so on. My wo k along wi h ha o a ious o he s shows ha he di ec ion o hese e ec s can a y conside ably depending on he sou ce o a ‘shock’ o he sys em and o he eedbacks ( o example, inancial and echnological). Once he empi ical li e a u e es ima ing neo-Kaleckian models de eloped some obus indings in he 2000s, I hink some o he ad an ages o my app oach became clea . Fi s , many s udies had ouble inding la ge o signi ican e ec s o he p o i sha e on in es - men , which is no su p ising since mos heo ies o in es men do no imply ha his a iable belongs in an in es men unc ion. A pos -Keynesian in es men unc ion inspi ed by he wo k o Hyman Minsky (o he ype o en es ima ed by Fazza i, and which I used in a s udy o US manu ac u ing in es men in 2007) would include an accel- e a o e ec , a cos -o -capi al e m and a ealised cash low a iable, bu no he p o i sha e pe se. Second, by abou en yea s ago i became clea om he empi ical s udies ha he decisi e ac o in de e mining whe he mos coun ies ha e wage-led o p o i - led demand is usually he impac o labou cos s on ne expo s, no in es men . So I hink my app oach has achie ed mo e ecogni ion in he pas decade as i p o ides a be e ounda ion o unde s anding hese empi ical indings. When did you go o Washing on o Ame ican Uni e si y? I s a ed a AU in 1985 and I ha e been he e, excep o sabba icals and o he lea es, e e since. We e he e any he e odox colleagues wi h you a Ame ican Uni e si y o e hose mo e han 30 yea s? Yes, he AU depa men is e y plu alis ic, al hough only one colleague (Alan Isaac) has done esea ch speci ically in he pos -Keynesian adi ion. A he ime I a i ed, he AU eco- nomics depa men was di ided in o wo camps: poli ical economy adicals and mains eam economis s. The poli ical economy camp included e e y hing om Ins i u ionalis s (like Jon Wisman and he la e Jim Wea e ) o o hodox Ma xis s (like John Weeks). My collea- gues also included one ounde o URPE ( he Union o Radical Poli ical Economics), Howa d Wach el, and o he URPE membe s such as Robin Hahnel and John Willoughby. O e he yea s he depa men has e ol ed, o example h ough he a i al o se e al Fem- inis economis s (Ma ia Flo o, Mieke Meu s and he la e Ba ba a Be gmann) and many In e iew wi h Robe A. Blecke 253 © 2018 The Au ho Jou nal compila ion © 2018 Edwa d Elga Publishing L d o he good colleagues, and we a e no longe di ided in o wo wa ing camps. On he whole, AU has been a e y congenial place o me. You also did some mo e empi ical and policy-o ien ed wo k on open economies? I did a lo o wo k o he Economic Policy Ins i u e (EPI), a p og essi e hink- ank in Washing on, DC, in he 1990s on opics such as he US ade de ici , NAFTA (No h Ame ican F ee T ade Ag eemen ), and ade policy and global inance mo e gene ally. I w o e a book o he EPI in 1992, in which I c i iqued he hen-popula ‘ win de ici s’ hypo hesis ha blamed he US ade de ici p ima ily on he budge de ici . EPI la e com- missioned me o w i e a book, Taming Global Finance (1999), in which I su eyed he heo ies and deba es abou inancial libe alisa ion, he causes o inancial c ises and e o m o he ‘global inancial a chi ec u e’as o he la e 1990s. Coming back o he o he hal o you PhD p ojec , so o speak, wha happened o you wo k on he balance-o -paymen s cons ain s and he a emp ed syn hesis o ha wi h he mo e Kaleck- ian app oach? Le me lea e he balance-o -paymen s-cons ain aspec aside o a momen . The second pa o my disse a ion was ac ually an empi ical s udy o how p o i ma k-ups we e squeezed by impo compe i ion in he US s eel indus y and wha we e he consequences o in es men in he sec o . My hinking on his opic was especially in luenced by Al ed Eichne ’s book, The Megaco p and Oligopoly (1976). Eichne ’s model essen ially depic ed a closed economy, p e- inancialisa ion, and igno ed in e na ional compe i ion. By he ime I was doing my esea ch in he 1980s, impo compe i ion was limi ing he abili y o big oligopolis ic i ms o cha ge he kind o ma k-ups hey had been se ing p e- iously. So, he second hal o my disse a ion was a case s udy a a mic o le el o wha I was modelling a he mac o le el in my neo-Kaleckian wo k. In my eg ession analysis o he s eel indus y, I ound ha he e was a s uc u al b eak when impo s achie ed a ce ain h eshold le el in he US ma ke in he mid 1960s, a e which ei he a dec ease in impo p ices o a ise in he impo pene a ion a io had a signi ican nega i e e ec on he p o i ma k-ups o US s eel p oduce s. When was his published? Theco es udycameou in heJou nal o Pos Keynesian Economics in 1989, and hen a second pape came ou in he In e na ional Re iew o Applied Economics in 1991. The la e pape combined a ious elemen s om Kalecki, S eindl and Eichne ’smodelso oligopolis ic i ms –ex ended o an indus y acing in e na ional compe i ion – o c ea e a pic u e o cumula i e causa ion (in his case, cumula i e decline) in he US s eel indus- y. Thus, i lowe -cos impo s come in and a e mo e compe i i e han domes ic p o- duc s, hey squeeze he p o i ma gins o domes ic i ms, which a e hen less able o inance in es men . I i ms in es less, hey ail o inc ease hei p oduc i i y and ha eeds back o u he wo sen hei compe i i eness, which hen in i es mo e impo s and so he cycle ge s wo se. And wha happened o he balance-o -paymen s-cons ained-g ow h wo k? I came back o ha app oach se e al di e en imes in my ca ee when i seemed like he igh amewo k o add essing ques ions I was in e es ed in. In he ea ly 1990s, I ound Thi lwall’s heo e ical app oach help ul o leshing ou my ideas on how he inc eased US ade de ici e lec ed a loss o compe i i eness o US-based indus ies. Using he Thi lwall model as a ounda ion and combining i wi h he assump ion 254 Eu opean Jou nal o Economics and Economic Policies: In e en ion, Vol. 15 No. 3 © 2018 The Au ho Jou nal compila ion © 2018 Edwa d Elga Publishing L d o ma k-up p icing, I ep esen ed a lack o compe i i eness as a si ua ion in which, in o de o balance a coun y’s ade a a gi en ela i e wage, he coun y’s g ow h would ha e o be con- s ained o be below a ull employmen g ow h a e ( he so-called ‘na u al a e o g ow h’). O he wise, he coun y would ha e ei he a con inuously alling ela i e wage o an inc easing ade de ici o e ime. I i s p esen ed his concep ual amewo k a a con e ence a he Fede al Rese e in 1993, and la e I published an ex ended e sion o i in he JPKE in 1998. Then, in he la e 1990s and ea ly 2000s, I go in e es ed in he hypo hesis o a ‘ allacy o composi ion’as a limi a ion on he p ospec s o success ul expo -led g ow h in la ge numbe s o de eloping o ‘eme ging’coun ies. I de eloped an ex ension o he Thi lwall model, combined wi h he Almos Ideal Demand Sys em o Dea on and Muellbaue (1980), o model a g oup o de eloping coun y expo e s all compe ing o he same, lim- i ed ma ke s in he ad anced economies. This was published in a pos -Keynesian con e - ence olume in 2002. Then, in empi ical wo k co-au ho ed wi h A slan Razmi (a o me AU PhD s uden who became a p o esso a he Uni e si y o Massachuse s, Amhe s ) (Blecke /Razmi 2010), we ound econome ic e idence showing ha coun ies whose expo p ices o eal exchange a es shi ed un a ou ably ela i e o o he , i al expo e s su e ed educed GDP g ow h in addi ion o slowe expo g ow h. Mo e ecen ly, I published wo pape s co-au ho ed wi h a Mexican pos -Keynesian col- league, Ca los Iba a (Blecke /Iba a 2013; Iba a/Blecke 2016), in which we ex ended he Thi lwall model o inco po a e impo ed in e media e goods ha a e used in expo p oduc ion and e-e alua ed he e idence o how ade libe alisa ion, NAFTA and o he policy shi s and global e en s ( o example, he ise o China) impac ed he balance-o -paymen s cons ain in he Mexican economy. On he heo e ical side, I had long w es led wi h how o econcile he Kaldo ian modelo expo -ledg ow hwi h heThi lwall model o a balance-o -paymen s con- s ain in eaching hese models o my s uden s a AU. I p esen ed a pape on his opic a he FMM pos -Keynesian summe school in Be lin in 2009, a e ised e sion o which appea ed in he Ox o d Handbook o Pos -Keynesian Economics,edi edbyGeo Ha cou and Pe e K iesle , in 2013. Then, my in ol emen in deba es o e he alidi y o he Thi lwall model and he ole o ela i e p ices (o eal exchange a es) in he g ow h p ocess o open economies led o an in i a ion o w i e a e iew o hese deba es o he Eu opean Jou nal o Economics and Economic Policies: In e en ion in 2016. Wha is you cu en main ocus o esea ch? I am con inuing o hink abou he wage-led e sus p o i -led g ow h issues. I mos economies a e p o i -led, as claimed by hose who ha e ound ‘Goodwin cycles’in he da a, why isn’ he wo ld economy doing be e a a ime when income is being edis ib- u ed o p o i s almos e e ywhe e? Wage sha es a e alling and ye mos economies (excep in Asia) a e g owing slowly o expe iencing long- e m s agna ion. My a gumen is ha he Goodwin cycle esul is eally a inding (a bes ) abou sho - e m business cycles, no abou longe - e m g ow h ajec o ies; i ha ks back o he ‘p o i squeeze’ heo ies o busi- ness cycles o he 1970s. I w o e abou why I hink demand is mo e likely o be wage-led in he longe e m in my con ibu ion o he ROKE (Re iew o Keynesian Economics) sym- posium on he Bhadu i–Ma glin model in 2016. Suppose you ha e a wo-equa ion model o g ow h and dis ibu ion, wi h an agg ega e demand unc ion and some kind o dis ibu i e cu e. I hey a e sloping he way he neo- Goodwinians say – ha is, in wage sha e and u ilisa ion space he e is a downwa d-sloping agg ega e demand and an upwa d-sloping dis ibu i e cu e – hen a long- e m decline in bo h g ow h and he wage sha e has o come p ima ily om a downwa d shi in agg ega e In e iew wi h Robe A. Blecke 255 © 2018 The Au ho Jou nal compila ion © 2018 Edwa d Elga Publishing L d demand ha domina es he shi in he dis ibu ional ela ionship. We’ e had a lo o hings ha ha e dep essed agg ega e demand in he las wo decades, including shi s owa d in la ion a ge ing in mone a y policy and aus e i y o balanced budge ules in iscal policy. Also, se e al s udies ha e ound ha inancialisa ion dep esses agg ega e demand, especially in es men . I hink people elling he neo-Kaleckian s o y ha e been hinking he o he way a ound: The e has been a shi in he dis ibu ional ela ionship agains labou , and he economy has mo ed down and o he le along an upwa d-sloping agg ega e demand cu e. Tha ’s ce ainly ano he possible s o y. Bu I hink a lo o he empi ical wo k has no adequa ely dis inguished whe he wha ’s being ound a e changes in he equili- b ium le els o he a iables as opposed o shi s in he unde lying ela ionships. And I do hink ha , oddly enough, we pos -Keynesians may no ha e emphasised mac o policies enough in e ms o hei e ec s on dis ibu ion in addi ion o demand o g ow h. I’m also wo king again on NAFTA issues, since Donald T ump has launched a ene- go ia ion o his ade ag eemen while h ea ening o wi hd aw he US om i . I am wo king wi h wo Mexican co-au ho s (Juan Ca los Mo eno-B id and Isabel Sala ) on why he neolibe al policy egime ensh ined in NAFTA did no lead o he con e gence o he Mexican and US economies, as had been p omised by i s ad oca es, bu ins ead con ibu ed o g ea e inequali y and long- un s agna ion in bo h coun ies. And in a longe - e m p ojec ha is going all oo slowly, I’m wo king on a he e odox mac o ex - book wi h Ma k Se e ield o he New School. This leads o wo inal ques ions. Wha is you iew on he cu en s a e o pos -Keynesian eco- nomics? And wha is you ecommenda ion o he younge gene a ion? Well, hese wo ques ions a e e y much linked. I hink we’ e a a kind o a c oss oads o in a con adic o y si ua ion. On he one hand, we know we a e cons an ly unde a ack in academia. We ha e ouble ge ing hi es o people like ou sel es, especially a he mo e eli e ins i u ions. We can’ ge published in he op jou nals. So we a e always eeling ma - ginalised. Ye a he same ime I eel his emendous exci emen and ene gy, which comes om he ac ha he e is a younge gene a ion de eloping he e odox ideas in economics and he e is an in e na ional sp ead o hose ideas especially in La in Ame ica. I also belie e ha he long- e m ajec o y has a lo o do wi h poli ics and poli ical cycles. The e i al o all kinds o adical and he e odox economics wi hou ques ion goes back o he 1960s – o he poli ical uphea al, he an i-wa mo emen in he US and he s uden up isings a ound he wo ld. Tha was when s uden s began demanding o ha e adical p o esso s. Also, many p o esso s go adicalised a ha ime. People like Duncan Foley, S e e Ma glin and Sam Bowles s a ed ou as mains eam economis s and hey changed because he poli ical en i onmen changed and hey began o ha e c i ical hough s abou wha hey had been augh and s a ed o wo k in new di ec ions. So, a lo depends on he poli ical en i onmen . I people s a sea ching o solu ions o oday’s economic p oblems, hey’ e going o ind us, he same way ha ou gene a ion ound ole models in people like Ba an, Sweezy, Da idson, Minksy, Co nwall, Eichne , Bowles and a ious o he s. People will come sea ching o us pos -Keynesians i he poli ical a mosphe e is encou aging. And do you hink ha pos -Keynesians a e well p epa ed i his poli ical op ion comes up? O wha would you conside o be a eas o esea ch, which would need o be u he de eloped? I hink his so o p epa a ion is al eady s a ing o happen. Younge pos -Keynesians and he e odox schola s need o deepen hemsel es in quan i a i e me hods o all kinds. Wha 256 Eu opean Jou nal o Economics and Economic Policies: In e en ion, Vol. 15 No. 3 © 2018 The Au ho Jou nal compila ion © 2018 Edwa d Elga Publishing L d we do in ou empi ical wo k is no so di e en om wha he ‘mains eam dissen e s’(as Ma c La oie calls hem) do. I ’s jus econome ics. Bu we need o lea n he mo e ad anced ools and use he bes echniques. And i ’s mo e han econome ics now. I ’s also agen -based modelling, s ock- low consis en modelling and he use o la ge mic o- le el da a se s o esea ch mac o ques ions. These a e all e y exci ing me hodologies. And his is al eady happening. The younge people a e aking he ideas ha ou gene a ion (and p e ious gene a ions) de eloped and ex ending and ans o ming hem wi h all hese me hods in o new a eas o di ec ions. Fo example, a his summe school we’ e seen p e- sen a ions ha a e building pos -Keynesian speci ica ions o mac o and inancial ela ion- ships in o models ha also look a clima e change, sus ainabili y and emissions. I hink ha ’s e y exci ing wo k. I am also encou aged by he ac ha many mains eam economis s a e now aking up ou ideas, including links be ween dis ibu ional equi y and g ow h, he s agna ing impac o inc eased monopoly powe and e en endogenous money (al hough, un o una ely, usually wi hou ci ing us). Bu we ha e some hing o o e ha he mains eam doesn’ . Al hough he mains eam dissen e s ha e poked conside able holes in o hodox heo ies, by showing how hey don’ hold in p ac ice, hey lack an al e na i e uni ying amewo k which is some hing ha we can p o ide. We also ha e o keep building ou ins i u ions, like he FMM, he B azilian Keynesian Associa ion, and he a ious o ganisa ions o he - e odox economis s in he US and Canada. I ’s eally i al o ha e jou nals like his one, as well as he CJE,ROKE,JPKE,Me oeconomica and a ious o he s. O e all, I’m cau iously op imis ic. Bu i ’s a s uggle as i always is. Okay, well hanks a lo Robe . This in e iew was conduc ed by Eckha d Hein and Ma c La oie in Be lin in Augus 2017, du ing he 6 h FMM In e na ional Summe School on Keynesian Mac oeconomics and Econ- omic Policies. We hank Ryan Woodga e o he ansc ip ion. SELECTED PUBLICATIONS OF ROBERT A. BLECKER Blecke , R.A. (1989a): In e na ional compe i ion, income dis ibu ion, and economic g ow h, in: Camb idge Jou nal o Economics, 13(3), 395–412. Blecke , R.A. (1989b): Ma kup p icing, impo compe i ion, and he decline o he Ame ican s eel indus y, in: Jou nal o Pos Keynesian Economics, 12(1), 70–87. Blecke , R.A. (1991): Impo compe i ion, in es men inance, and cumula i e decline in he U.S. s eel indus y, 1962–1981, in: In e na ional Re iew o Applied Economics, 5(2), 171–195. Blecke , R.A. (1992): Beyond he Twin De ici s: A T ade S a egy o he 1990s, A monk, NY: M.E. Sha pe. Blecke , R.A. (1996): The new economic in eg a ion: s uc u alis models o No h–Sou h ade and in es men libe aliza ion, in: S uc u al Change and Economic Dynamics, 7(3), 321–345. Blecke , R.A. (1997): Policy implica ions o he in e na ional sa ing–in es men co ela ion, in: Pol- lin, R. (ed.), The Mac oeconomics o Finance, Sa ing, and In es men , Ann A bo , MI: Uni e si y o Michigan P ess, 173–229. Blecke , R.A. (1998): In e na ional compe i i eness, ela i e wages, and he balance-o -paymen s cons ain , in: Jou nal o Pos Keynesian Economics, 20(4), 495–526. Blecke , R.A. (1999): Taming Global Finance: A Be e A chi ec u e o G ow h and Equi y, Washing- on, DC: Economic Policy Ins i u e. Blecke , R.A. (2002): The balance-o -paymen s-cons ained g ow h model and he limi s o expo - led g ow h, in: Da idson, P. (ed.), A Pos Keynesian Pe spec i e on Twen y-Fi s Cen u y Economic P oblems, Chel enham, UK and No hamp on, MA: Edwa d Elga Publishing, 69–88. In e iew wi h Robe A. Blecke 257 © 2018 The Au ho Jou nal compila ion © 2018 Edwa d Elga Publishing L d