Women in Leadership

Transformation, UJ (Ed.) Book Women in Leadership Provided in Cooperation with: UJ Press, University of Johannesburg (UJ) Suggested Citation: Transformation, UJ (Ed.) (2024) : Women in Leadership, ISBN 9781776489817, UJ Press, Johannesburg, https://doi.org/10.36615/9781776489817 This Version is available at: https://hdl.handle.net/10419/321954 Standard-Nutzungsbedingungen: Die Dokumente auf EconStor dürfen zu eigenen wissenschaftlichen Zwecken und zum Privatgebrauch gespeichert und kopiert werden. Sie dürfen die Dokumente nicht für öffentliche oder kommerzielle Zwecke vervielfältigen, öffentlich ausstellen, öffentlich zugänglich machen, vertreiben oder anderweitig nutzen. Sofern die Verfasser die Dokumente unter Open-Content-Lizenzen (insbesondere CC-Lizenzen) zur Verfügung gestellt haben sollten, gelten abweichend von diesen Nutzungsbedingungen die in der dort genannten Lizenz gewährten Nutzungsrechte. 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If the documents have been made available under an Open Content Licence (especially Creative Commons Licences), you may exercise further usage rights as specified in the indicated licence. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0 Women in Leadership UJ Transformation Women in Leadership Published by UJ Press under the Hoopoe Press imprint University of Johannesburg Library Auckland Park Kingsway Campus PO Box 524 Auckland Park 2006 https://ujpress.uj.ac.za/ Compilation © UJ Transformation 2024 Chapters © Author(s) 2024 Published Edition © UJ Transformation 2024 First published 2024 https://doi.org/10.36615/9781776489817 978-1-7764898-0-0 (Paperback) 978-1-7764898-1-7 (PDF) 978-1-7764898-2-4 (EPUB) 978-1-7764898-3-1 (XML) Language Editor: Yumna Moosa Cover design: Hester Roets, UJ Graphic Design Studio Typeset in 9.5/13pt Merriweather Light Contents Foreword ........................................................................................... i Ms Nolwazi Mamorare Chief Financial Officer, University of Johannesburg & Woman Leader Word from Prof. Sehaam Khan .................................................. iii Deputy Vice-Chancellor: Academic University of Johannesburg Dr Stella Bvuma ............................................................................... 1 Director: Applied Information Systems, University of Johannesburg Prof. Amanda Dempsey ................................................................ 11 Senior Director : School of Accounting, University of Johannesburg Prof. Maria Frahm-Arp ................................................................ 17 Executive Director: Library and Information Centre, University of Johannesburg Prof. Ylva Rodny-Gumede ........................................................... 29 Senior Director: Global Engagement, University of Johannesburg Ms Tokoza Kwinana ....................................................................... 35 Executive Director: Human Capital Management, University of Johannesburg Prof. Wai Sze Leung ........................................................................ 47 Senior Director: Postgraduate School, University of Johannesburg Dr Ndivhuwo Luruli ....................................................................... 53 Executive Director: Research Development and Support, University of Johannesburg Ms Nomsa Mahlangu ..................................................................... 63 Senior Director: Sports, University of Johannesburg Associate Prof. Kirti Menon ......................................................... 71 Senior Director: Division for Teaching Excellence, University of Johannesburg Dr Nompumelelo Mkhize ............................................................ 77 Director: Transformation, University of Johannesburg Prof. Kammila Naidoo ................................................................... 89 Executive Dean: Faculty of Humanities, University of Johannesburg Prof. Nadine Petersen .................................................................... 103 Executive Dean: Faculty of Education, University of Johannesburg Ms Lerato Riba ................................................................................. 115 Executive Director: Financial Governance and Control, University of Johannesburg Ms Khathu Sibanda ........................................................................ 125 Chief Information Officer, University of Johannesburg Prof. Mmasethunya Temane ...................................................... 137 Executive Dean: Health Sciences, University of Johannesburg Dr Denyse Webbstock ................................................................... 145 Senior Director: Institutional Planning Evaluation & Monitoring, University of Johannesburg 3 Dr Stella Bvuma move up the ladder, preventing them from receiving guidance and inspiration. One of such obstacles is gender bias and stereotypes, which often associate leadership with men. Women who exhibit leadership qualities are often labelled as too aggressive or bossy, while men who display the same traits are viewed as strong, courageous, and bold. This double standard remains a big problem. Dr Bvuma was appointed as the Director of the School of Consumer Intelligence and Information Systems and during her interview, she made it clear that she did not want to be seen as an equity candidate or have her appointment be considered a mere exercise in gender equality. She strongly believes that employers should not be focused on meeting certain affirmative action quotas when hiring. Instead, they should prioritise competence and skill when making appointments. This approach undermines women’s abilities and makes people assume that they were appointed because of affirmative action instead of based on their qualifications andexperience. Dr Bvuma praised Dr Mkhize, the director of the Transformation Unit, for her inspiring leadership that has led to the empowerment of many women leaders. Through Dr Mkhize’s leadership, the Transformation Unit has established various women leadership programmes to nurture and support women leaders. These initiatives have made significant progress in promoting gender equality and equity. 3. Are female leaders born or made? Please elaborate as you consider the fact that most women have additional roles like childbearing that require them to still focus on. In Dr Bvuma’s view, the question of whether leaders are born or made bought out two potential responses. On one hand, there are individuals who seem to be born with the beneficial characteristics for leadership such as confidence, intelligence, and social skills. She has observed this in the young people she has motivated and inspired who possess such traits. However, 4 Women in Leadership these innate traits are not exclusive to any gender and do not automatically make someone a good leader. She believes that leadership is also a skill that can be developed and honed over time through experience, education, and mentoring. It is crucial to acknowledge that many women have the potential to be great leaders, despite biological factors. Dr Bvuma believes that women can become exceptional leaders by acquiring the necessary skills and knowledge through their careers and experiences. An example of this can be seen with female leaders who often juggle the responsibilities of raising children and their careers. This enhances their empathy and interpersonal skills. Child rearing involves nurturing and understanding the emotional needs of others, which can benefit a leader’s abilities. Additionally, overcoming personal and professional challenges associated with being a woman and a caregiver can also build resilience. Issues such as discrimination, lack of support or family responsibilities, and limited access to mentorship and networking can impede the rise of female leaders. Nonetheless, there is a growing awareness of the importance of gender diversity in leadership, and efforts are being made to develop leadership qualities in women and men alike. Dr Bvuma believes that men also face unique challenges and possess strengths that come with their personal circumstances. To address these challenges and strengths positively, investing in leadership development programs and creating supportive workplace policies is necessary. Policies reflect the culture of the workplace and demonstrate whether work-life balance and employee well-being are valued. Leaders are interested in results, but they must also ensure that female leaders have the innate traits and refined life experiences that will enable them to succeed. Given the additional roles that women often have, the path to leadership may be complex. 5 Dr Stella Bvuma 4. Are women leaders more aggressive than male leaders? What is your view on the statement and kindly unpack it? “The perception of women in leadership roles as more aggressive than men is a pervasive gender bias.” Dr Stella mentioned. According to her, this notion is a perception, and it stems from societal stereotypes and expectations that women should follow traditional gender norms. Women leaders often face obstacles like “double-bind”, where they are criticized for conforming to feminine stereotypes and labelled as aggressive. Dr Bvuma believes that this bias is not true, and it’s a pervasiveagenda. Dr Bvuma often hears remarks about being the first black female to hold the position of Head of Department. She finds this statement insulting and believes that it puts unnecessary performance pressure on women. In 2024, such statements should not be discussed. Women still face limited opportunities and networking challenges due to the maledominated culture in boardrooms. Dr Bvuma was fortunate to have a female leader, Professor Roelien Brink when she started in academia. Professor Brink demonstrated a good worklife balance, which made it easier for Dr Bvuma to pursue her career in academia. She believes to address these challenges, institutions and companies should foster an inclusive culture and not just pay lip service to the idea of a work-life balance They must implement good bias training to ensure that women are given equal opportunities to succeed. 5. What is the most important risk you have had to take in your leadership journey and why? Dr Bvuma accepted an invitation to serve as a board member of SITA - the State Information Technology Agency of South Africa, which is a government entity. She became the deputy chair of the centre board in South Africa which provided her with a unique opportunity to influence policymaking and contribute to the public good. Dr Bvuma is passionate about making a positive change. She saw her role as a chance to serve 6 Women in Leadership as a role model for young people and women, demonstrating that it is possible to work with the government in a positive way and make a meaningful contribution to society. Dr Bvuma was concerned about several risks, such as political favouritism, corruption, and public scrutiny. She was worried that even if someone is honest and has strong values, they might still become entangled in these issues. Work-life balance was also a consideration, as Dr Bvuma did not want to serve on the board just to tick a box and prove herqualifications. 6. How do you continue to grow, develop and show up as a leader? Share your recipe for success. Dr Bvuma believes that leaders, especially women leaders, must continuously empower themselves to meet the public’s scrutiny. Consistent leadership requires a blend of self-awareness, adaptability, and dedication to the cause. Education is a lifelong pursuit for her, and she still reads to date. Though she doesn’t have a recipe for growth, Dr Bvuma suggests self-assessment as a daily practice and regularly takes stock of her strengths and weaknesses while seeking mentorship to guide her. Dr Bvuma has recently been considering using formal assessments or electronic tools to identify areas in which she can improve. This is essential for lifelong learning. She attends workshops, enrols in courses, and explores the world around her to expand her knowledge and skills. She sets clear goals for personal and professional development and applies the Specific Measurable Achievable Relevant and Time-bound (SMART) goal-setting framework. Cultivating emotional intelligence is a key aspect of her leadership style, which helps her navigate interpersonal dynamics. She sees herself and others as spirits, which enhances her awareness, empathy, and relationship management skills. Dr Bvuma believes that continuous learning should not be just a box-ticking exercise. It’s important to have a support network of people who challenge you to grow and 7 Dr Stella Bvuma provide diverse perspectives. Diversity shouldn’t be feared, as it’s helpful to have a robust support network consisting of colleagues, family, friends, and mentors. 7. What does juggling a few balls mean for you? Dr Bvuma maintains that women leaders face challenges that are similar to those faced by their male counterparts. While managing time and resources effectively is crucial for leaders, maintaining a balance between one’s personal and professional life can be challenging for women due to societal pressures and expectations. Women face gender biases and are often judged based on their ability to balance work and life commitments. Dr Bvuma believes that successful leadership is characterized by capability, adaptability, vision, and the ability to inspire and motivate others regardless of gender. Juggling different tasks and responsibilities is critical for leaders, and women have historically been good at this. While men tend to excel at prioritizing delegating and making strategic decisions, they often struggle with maintaining a work-life balance and being present for their families and communities. Women, on the other hand, tend to be successful at juggling multiple responsibilities. Dr Bvuma is an example of a woman who managed to raise two children, complete her PhD, and excel in her academic career while also being present for her family and community. 8. If you could put together a code of practice for women leaders, what would that code be and what would it look like? Dr Bvuma reckons the code of practice for women leaders would start with integrity. This means committing to the highest standards of professionalism and ethical conduct while making decisions based on merit rather than emotions. Self-awareness helps in distinguishing between the two. Equality and fairness are also crucial factors. The second point would be to embrace diversity and inclusion. It is essential to work towards an inclusive culture where every voice is heard 8 Women in Leadership and respected. Exclusion is a painful experience that no one should go through in an organization. It is therefore important to promote diversity and inclusion within departments ororganisations. The third point is to lead with confidence and humility. It is important to remain open to feedback and the possibility of learning from others while being confident in one’s own abilities. Arrogance can be a turn-off, especially when leading a diverse group. Lastly, it’s important to ensure work-life balance. Women leaders should support and develop their team, give them responsibility, and trust their capabilities. 9. Watint’ Abafazi, Watint’ Imbokodo and Mosadi Otshwara Thipa Ka Bo galeng. These are a few statements that have existed alluding to the strength of a woman. What is your view on them? These words hold great power for Dr Bvuma. The word “bogaleng” means holding the knife at the sharp end and chopping on the other side. Dr Bvuma interprets this as resilience and empowerment. A capable woman demonstrates resilience, compassion, and adaptability. A woman should be able to maintain and support other women while being visible and vocal about where they stand. Intellectual and emotional depth is also important, particularly when navigating complex situations and managing multiple roles. Persistence and selfdetermination are the keys to achieving goals. Women can build a strong supportive network and bridge cultural, generational, and gender gaps while promote collaboration among diverse groups. For Dr Bvuma, these are very powerful words. Intellectual and emotional depth will allow one to navigate complexities, but persistence and selfdetermination are evident in the pursuit of goals one wants toachieve. 9 Dr Stella Bvuma 10. What is advice you wish someone had given you at the beginning of your career and why? As Dr Bvuma started her academic career at a young age, she wished she had been surrounded by mentors who could have guided leadership and career progression. She does not regret starting as a tutor and student in her department as it allowed her to work her way up to becoming a lecturer, HOD, and a director. When it comes to leadership, Dr Bvuma believes that being authentic and bringing “Ubuntu Ness” (humanity and compassion) into the boardroom is essential. She recalls going back to her mother’s advice to be true to herself, vulnerable, and authentic. Dr Bvuma suggests that one should fix anything that needs to be fixed within oneself and bring all the village trades learned along the way. 11 Prof. Amanda Dempsey Senior Director : School of Accounting, University of Johannesburg Background Professor Amanda Dempsey’s journey is a testament to her inspiring and challenging path in overcoming gender-related resistance and societal norms before becoming a Professor and Senior Director at the University of Johannesburg’s School of Accounting. Her story showcases the perseverance and determination required to break through barriers. This started with her childhood dream of attending a university away fromhome. Financial constraints had not deterred her from pursuing her studies at the Rand Afrikaans University (RAU), now part of UJ. During her articles program, she had expressed her aspiration to work in the Department of Accounting at RAU and demonstrated her commitment to her chosen field. Despite encountering gender-related resistance from the new Head of the Department, she persevered and eventually received an invitation to apply for a position, breaking gender barriers in the Accounting Department. The irony of being excluded from RAU’s pension fund due to her marital status, which restricted participation to married women, added another layer to her journey. Today, as the chair of the UJ pension fund, she not only showcases her professional success but also her ability to overcome personal challenges. Professor Amanda’s story serves as an inspiration and emphasises the importance of persistence, 12 Women in Leadership resilience, and breaking societal norms to achieve one’s goals. It also showcases the significance of diversity and inclusion in academic and professional settings. 1. Early Messages and Inspirations Professor Amanda Dempsey’s journey took an unexpected turn when her father encouraged her to become a teacher, considering it a suitable profession for a woman. Attending Helpmekaar Girls School in Johannesburg, the only Afrikaansmedium girls’ school, played a crucial role in shaping her perspective. Reconnecting with former classmates through a WhatsApp group, she realised the strength that came from an all-girls school environment which allowed her and her friends to thrive without intimidation. Becoming a teacher fulfilled her father’s wishes and aligned with her journey into academia, particularly in the Accounting Department. Achieving her dream of becoming a chartered accountant while being involved in teaching, learning, and research at a tertiary level represented a harmonious blend of her aspirations. Professor Amanda’s contentment with achieving these goals at a university level underscores the importance she places on education, both as a teacher and a researcher. 3. Glaring Obstacles Women Face in Leadership Professor Amanda Dempsey candidly addresses the significant challenge she faced during her 11-year tenure as Dean – the issue of time. Societal expectations assumed that, as a woman, she would bear the full responsibility of household management and childcare despite her demanding professional role. Traditional gender roles were still prevalent during her time as Dean, but the burden was somewhat alleviated as her children were reaching adulthood when she assumed the position. Her exposure to opportunities during her first 20 years at the University of Johannesburg, coupled with support from 19 Prof. Maria Frahm-Arp everyone’s voice, distribute tasks effectively, and maintain cohesion throughout the project underscored her organizational skills. Such experiences honed her capability to lead without formal authority or the ability to offer financial incentives, an invaluable skill in settings where power and monetary rewards are absent. Her journey into leadership also intertwined with her commitment to her Christian community, leading her to become a priest. In this role she learned to motivate volunteers within congregations, emphasizing the importance of encouraging others without the leverage of authority or financial compensation. Despite her natural leadership inclination, she faced challenges rooted in societal expectations. Coming from a family and cultural background where women were not traditionally encouraged to assume leadership roles, she encountered resistance, particularly concerning her pursuit of a Ph.D. Her grandparents, adhering to traditional gender norms, were dismayed by her unmarried status in her late 20s, questioning the value of her academicpursuits. Navigating a school environment that provided limited career guidance for women in the 1980s, she found inspiration from two supportive male lecturers during her studies. Lamenting the absence of strong female role models, she resolved to lead in ways she deemed superior to what she had observed. Her leadership journey is therefore not only a testament to her natural abilities but also a narrative of overcoming societal expectations, fostering collaboration, and shaping her leadership style in the absence of conventionalmodels. 2. What are some of the glaring obstacles for women to take up leadership positions in the 21st Century? In reflecting on the challenges women face in their professional journeys, Prof Maria highlighted a significant obstacle which is childcare responsibilities. Drawing attention to the unequal distribution of childcare work within her 20 Women in Leadership broader social circle. She notes that women, particularly those in leadership positions, often grapple with the balance between career demands and the demands of motherhood. Drawing on Malcolm Gladwell’s insights from “Outliers,” she emphasizes the essential role of investing time to achieve excellence, a luxury that women, in contrast to men, may find challenging due to societal expectations. Observing appointments to senior director positions within the University of Johannesburg, she notes a pattern where many women in executive leadership, including herself, are those women who are without children and are mostly unmarried. While acknowledging the validity of individual choices, she underscores the difficulties faced by mothers in dedicating the necessary time and focus to their careers, essential for effective leadership. Prof Maria points out that the demanding nature of management positions, where long hours are expected, poses a challenge globally. The discourse extends to a comparison with previous generations, citing her grandfather’s work routine, which was 7 am to 4pm, which contrasts sharply with the current trend of extended working hours. Her family’s conversation highlights a collective realization that the relentless pursuit of work has become a defining characteristic of the contemporary professional landscape, impacting individuals globally. In essence, Prof Maria addresses the multifaceted challenges women encounter in balancing career aspirations with familial responsibilities, shedding light on the broader implications of an increasingly demanding work culture that affects individuals across different parts of the world. 21 Prof. Maria Frahm-Arp 3. Are female leaders born or made? Please elaborate as you consider the fact that most women have additional roles like childbearing and childrearing that still require them to focus on. Prof Maria offers a nuanced perspective on the nature of female leadership, challenging the dichotomy of whether leaders are born or made. While acknowledging that some individuals may possess an inherent disposition for leadership, she contends that the majority of people in leadership positions acquire their skills through education, coaching, and learning. The emphasis is on the belief that effective leadership is a cultivated trait, and individuals, regardless of gender, need guidance to excel in these roles. She delves into the societal dynamics that hinder the development of female leaders, pointing out the challenges posed by societal structures that make it difficult for women to assume executive leadership positions. Prof Maria underscores the impact of time constraints, especially in roles that demand extensive hours, on the emergence of female leaders. She questions why, despite rhetoric and support for women in middle management, the representation of women in boardrooms and executive positions remains disproportionately low. The discussion touches on the conflicting priorities faced by women, where the demands of executive roles often clash with the desire to allocate time for family responsibilities. Prof Maria suggests that the choice to prioritize family over pursuing executive roles is a factor contributing to the underrepresentation of women at higher leadership levels. She acknowledges the exceptional women who can balance extensive work hours and family commitments but highlights that such a feat is not feasible for the majority. In essence, Prof Maria advocates for a more comprehensive understanding of leadership development, emphasizing the need for supportive structures that address the time constraints and societal barriers preventing more women from ascending to executive leadership positions. 22 Women in Leadership 4. “Female leaders are more aggressive than male leaders”, What is your view on the statement? Prof Maria challenges the notion that leadership traits are inherently gender-specific, asserting that certain environments tend to favour individuals with assertive qualities for leadership positions. Disputing stereotypes about gender roles, she contends that both men and women can excel in mentoring and developing others. However, she observes that societal challenges faced by women can lead them to adopt more assertive behaviours in response to the difficulties they encounter. Anticipating a shift in societal norms for the next generation, she suggested that raising boys might be more challenging than raising girls at present. She shares her personal experience, being 6 feet tall and confident, highlighting the confidence advantage men traditionally enjoyed. Reflecting on her dyslexia and public speaking skills, she acknowledges that confidence plays a crucial role in leadership, but she cautions against mistaking aggression forconfidence. Prof Maria emphasizes that effective leadership is not about knowing everything or being the most liked but rather enabling others to unlock their potential. She critiques the societal value placed on aggression, viewing it as a sign of insecurity rather than confidence. She advocates for leaders who are self-aware, understand their limitations, and prioritize collaboration. Navigating the complexities of leadership, Prof Maria acknowledges the challenge of making decisions that not everyone may comprehend due to confidentiality or strategic foresight. She stresses the importance of communication, valuing diverse voices, and making everyone feel heard to avoid resorting to aggressive leadership styles. In the context of an academic environment with limited resources, she anticipates a rise in territorial and resourcerelated aggressiveness. She calls for a shift in the prevailing 23 Prof. Maria Frahm-Arp aggressive approach, urging for collaborative ways to share resources for the greater good. Prof Maria challenges the prevailing mindset that praises aggression, proposing a more inclusive and collaborative approach to decision-making inmeetings. 5. What is the most important risk you have had to take in your leadership journey and why? Prof Maria shares insights into her leadership experiences and emphasizes the inherent risks associated with embracing technology and implementing innovative approaches in various educational settings. She recounted instances of taking risks both at Gustin College, within the Faculty of Humanities, and now in the library. In the realm of education, Prof Maria took the risk of reevaluating traditional teaching methods in religion studies. Instead of solely relying on essays, she introduced a novel approach by having students create two-minute videos to explain different concepts. This innovative method not only required students to develop video-making skills but also encouraged peer-to-peer teaching. Prof Maria underscores the risk involved in trusting students to take ownership of their learning, acknowledging the unpredictable outcomes that can arise. Despite the uncertainty she emphasizes the importance of trust in the learning process. Transitioning to the UJ library, Prof Maria describes a myriad of technologies and changes implemented involving a shift in job roles to ensure future readiness. This strategic move, although risky, aimed at making the library operate differently from traditional models of libraries in South Africa. Prof Maria expresses gratitude for colleagues who embraced the vision and highlighted the collective effort in navigating this transformative journey. The positive outcome of these risks is highlighted by the library’s ability to avoid layoffs, a trend seen in many academic libraries globally. Prof Maria emphasized the importance of aligning jobs with future needs and fostering a culture where 24 Women in Leadership individuals are encouraged to evolve and move in different directions. By repurposing positions and ensuring that every job is deemed critical, the library has successfully adapted to change without compromising job security. Prof Maria advocates for taking calculated risks in educational and organizational settings while trusting the potential of individuals to adapt and innovate. Their experiences showcase the successful implementation of transformative measures, resulting in a future-ready library and a workforce that remains essential and secure. 6. How do you continue to grow, develop, and show up as a leader? Share your recipe for success. Prof Maria underscores the importance of continuous learning and self-reflection in the realm of leadership. She advocates for a multifaceted approach that involves reading extensively on leadership, consuming various media formats such as videos, attending conferences, and actively engaging in conversations with others. This commitment to ongoing education is seen as instrumental in honing leadership skills. She also places a particular emphasis on the significance of reflection, delving into the reasons behind both successes and failures, understanding why certain approaches work for some individuals but not for others, and comprehending the varied reactions of people in different situations. The act of reflection is presented as a key practice to gain insights into the dynamics of leadership and interpersonal relationships. Additionally, Prof Maria highlights the importance of grounding oneself in personal identity to avoid reacting solely from a place of ego. This involves cultivating self-awareness and maintaining honesty with oneself. By being attuned to one’s core values and principles, leaders can navigate challenges and interactions with a more grounded and authentic perspective. In essence, Prof Maria approach to effective leadership involves a continuous cycle of learning, reflection, and 25 Prof. Maria Frahm-Arp self-awareness. This multifaceted strategy is presented as essential for staying adaptable, understanding the nuances of leadership dynamics, and fostering genuine and effective connections with others. 7. What does juggling a few balls mean for you? For Prof Maria, effective leadership involves creativity, forward-looking vision, and a problem-solving mindset. Juggling different roles and responsibilities requires the ability to address challenges and prevent potential issues from derailing progress. The analogy of juggling different balls is used to illustrate the need for leaders to maintain balance and problem-solve, ensuring that nothing crucial falls through thecracks. Prof Maria emphasizes her role as a leader in removing roadblocks for her colleagues, facilitating their ability to fulfil her responsibilities. This, in turn, involves constant problemsolving and the management of various expectations—both internal and external. Prof Maria acknowledges that juggling these expectations while maintaining a realistic framework is a critical aspect of effective leadership. In essence, “juggling a few balls” for Prof Maria encompasses the dynamic and multifaceted nature of leadership, where problem-solving, balancing responsibilities, and managing expectations are key components of navigating the complexities inherent in leadership roles. 8. If you were to put together a code of practice for women leaders, what would that code be and what would it look like? Prof Maria discusses the characteristics she believes are essential in a leadership code of conduct, emphasizing that these qualities are not specific to any gender but are universally applicable to anyone in a leadership role. They highlight the following key attributes: 26 Women in Leadership •Listening and Reflection: The candidate underscores the importance of actively listening and reflecting with honesty as crucial elements of effective leadership. •Good Communication: Clear and effective communication is identified as a fundamental aspect of a leadership code of conduct. •Agility: The candidate emphasizes the need for leaders to be agile, adaptable, and responsive to changing circumstances. •Ethical Behaviour: The significance of ethical behaviour is highlighted, with an emphasis on leaders holding themselves to the same ethical standards expected fromothers. •Grounding Oneself: Leaders are encouraged to find ways to ground themselves, fostering confidence based on reality and truth rather than ego-driven confidence. •Forward-Looking Vision: Having a forward-looking vision and clarity about the future is identified as an essential trait for effective leadership. •Decision-Making and Direction: The candidate stresses the importance of making decisions and providing clear direction for the team to prevent fragmentation. •Creativity and Tolerance for Failure: The code of conduct promotes creativity and acknowledges the inevitability of failure in the creative process. Leaders are urged to allow individuals to fail, emphasizing the importance of learning and moving forward. •Symbolic Gesture: The candidate shares a symbolic gesture from Prof Maria, who provided executive leaders with pens featuring erasers, symbolizing the idea that mistakes are natural and correctable. This gesture encourages a culture of experimentation and learning from failures. In summary, Prof Maria envisions a leadership code of conduct that encompasses a holistic set of principles promoting ethical behaviour, effective communication, adaptability, creativity, and a forward-looking vision, with an emphasis on 27 Prof. Maria Frahm-Arp learning from failures and fostering a positive and innovative workculture. 9. “Watinta Abafazi, Watint’Imbokodo” “Mosadi o tshwara thipa ka bo galeng”, these are but a few statements that have existed, alluding to the strength of a woman, what is your view on them? Prof Maria expressed reservations about statements celebrating the strength of women, cautioning against using such statements to overlook societal demands. While acknowledging the historical context of women’s strength, particularly in the South African migrant working system, she raised concerns about the unintended consequences on familystructures. The celebration of women’s strength, according to Prof Maria, might inadvertently undermine the family unit, not limited to the nuclear family but encompassing diverse family structures that once functioned effectively. She questioned the societal expectations that have placed a disproportionate burden on women to be strong, especially in raising childrenalone. Prof Maria expressed discomfort with the idea that celebrating women’s strength might let men off the hook, leading to a lack of accountability for men in supporting their families. She posed critical questions about the prevalence of gender-based violence, juxtaposing the acknowledgment of women’s strength with the troubling reality of abuse againstthem. The concern voiced by Prof Maria revolves around the potential misuse of statements about women’s strength as justifications for men not adequately supporting women in society. She called for a broader celebration of both men and women showing up for their families and each other and emphasized the need for shared responsibilities without relying on gendered expectations. 28 Women in Leadership In summary, Prof Maria’s perspective challenges the conventional celebration of women’s strength, prompting a deeper examination of societal dynamics and the need for shared responsibilities within families, irrespective of gender. 10. What advice you wish someone had given you at the beginning of your career and why? Prof Maria expresses a wish for having had a good mentor throughout her career, someone who could have provided guidance on where to focus their energy, what to prioritize, and what areas to avoid. Despite the existence of leadership programs at UJ, the candidate notes that her personal experience with such programs was not particularly helpful, and her did not receive any formal mentoring during her journey at UJ. Reflecting on their own path at UJ, Prof Maria describes a journey of stepping out independently, being creative, making things happen, and learning on the job. She highlights the lack of mentorship, support, or encouragement throughout thisprocess. This personal experience has fuelled Prof Maria’s passion for mentoring younger academics. She emphasizes the potential impact of having good mentors who can provide guidance on strategic focus, navigating the academic landscape, and making informed decisions. Prof Maria underscores the importance of basic guidance, such as focusing on a coherent research area for optimal impact and understanding the nuances of the academic system. In essence, Prof Maria’s perspective underscores the value of mentoring in providing crucial guidance, support, and practical advice that can significantly impact an individual’s academic and professional journey. 35 Ms Tokoza Kwinana Executive Director: Human Capital Management, University of Johannesburg Background Ms Tokoza Kwinana, a native of Dutywa in the Eastern Cape, began her academic journey at the University of Western Cape, where she pursued a Bachelor of Administration. Following her undergraduate studies, she moved to Johannesburg to undertake her postgraduate studies at the University of Witwatersrand. Later, she joined RAU for her BCom honours in employment relations. In 1998, Ms Kwinana embarked on her professional career as a trainee in the mining industry where she gained valuable experience in various roles over a span of four years. Subsequently, she transitioned to the British High Commission in Pretoria and assumed the role of HR manager. She was responsible for the South African region, and parts ofLesotho. In 2009, Ms Kwinana joined the University of Johannesburg as the Director for Business Partnering and held the position until 2019. Following this, she was appointed as the Executive Director of Human Capital Management. Apart from her professional endeavours, Ms Kwinana, a devoted wife and mother of three, emphasizes the importance of faith in her life. She believes in the power of prayer and underscores the need to seek support during challenges. Her philosophy centres around maintaining a healthy mind and heart, and she recognizes the interconnectedness of the two. 36 Women in Leadership Ms Kwinana acknowledges the complexities of dealing with people in her HR roles. Despite the prevalence of policies and processes, she emphasizes the significance of face-to-face interactions. According to her, these personal connections are essential as they allow one to have a deeper understanding of individuals, beyond the formalities of policies and procedures. Reflecting on her journey, Ms Kwinana advises others to overcome challenges promptly, safeguarding one’s heart and mind. She emphasizes the value of connecting with people on an individual level while recognizing the unique and diverse nature of each person. 1. What are the early messages that you were hearing about the girl child? Messages that came from people you look up to and messages that ended up inspiring you in your leadership journey. Reflecting on her upbringing and life experiences, she shares valuable insights that have influenced her personal and professional journey. Growing up in a rural area, Ms Kwinana encountered messages that reinforced gender stereotypes with societal expectations dictating that certain fields were reserved for men. Despite these challenges, she embraced a mindset of determination and resilience, aspiring to succeed in her chosen path. These early messages only fuelled her determination to break through gender stereotypes. Messages from Ms Kwinana’s mother played a pivotal role in shaping her values. Key lessons such as ‘do not rush to have children’ and ‘education is important’ underscored the importance of patience and academic pursuits. Ms Kwinana acknowledges the impact of being surrounded by strong women, particularly her grandmothers, who played a significant role in her upbringing. Raised in a community where mutual support was ingrained in all, she learned the importance of lifting others as one rises. This community spirit instilled in her the belief that success is not an individual endeavour but a collective achievement. 37 Ms Tokoza Kwinana Quoting Maya Angelou, Ms Kwinana emphasizes the power of personal agency in shaping one’s destiny. The message that “you may not control all the events that happened to you, but you can decide not to be reduced by them” resonates deeply with her. This philosophy guides her response to challenges, reinforcing her commitment to overcoming adversity. Rejecting the notion that certain roles are exclusive to a particular gender, Ms Kwinana shares her childhood experiences where she engaged in activities traditionally associated with boys. In her grandmother’s house, responsibilities were not gender-specific, fostering a belief in the capability of women to run households independently. Ms Kwinana learned the importance of self-reliance and resourcefulness from her grandmother. The idea that one does not always have to depend on others but can forge their own path and seek help when needed has become a guiding principle in her life. 2. What are some of the glaring obstacles for women to take on leadership positions in the 21st century? Ms Tokoza Kwinana sheds light on persisting gender stereotypes and biases that continue to impact women in various professional sectors. Ms Kwinana underscores the lingering bias that questions women’s ability to tap into their intellectual capacity. She notes the prevalent belief that women may be perceived as less competent and less assertive in their professional roles, facing scepticism about their capabilities compared to their male counterparts. A notable stereotype, according to Ms Kwinana, is the belief that women are primarily responsible for family care, potentially hindering their professional growth. This perception contributes to underrepresentation in leadership positions and can result in gender pay gaps. Ms Kwinana highlights the existing underrepresentation of women in leadership roles across various sectors. Additionally, she points out the challenges women face in mentorship, as some 38 Women in Leadership male leaders shy away from mentoring women due to concerns about potential harassment issues. She emphasizes that this hampers the progress towards achieving gender diversity. Addressing the stereotype of women being viewed as emotional, Ms Kwinana challenges the negative connotation associated with this perception. She argues that leading with emotions is a strength and an aspect of authentic leadership: it is an essential quality that female leaders can bring to the table, enhancing their effectiveness in leadership roles. 3. Are female leaders born or made? Please elaborate as you consider the fact that most women have additional roles like childbearing. Ms Tokoza Kwinana’s perspective on leadership is rooted in the belief that leaders are inherently born with certain qualities. According to her, these innate traits form the foundation of leadership potential. She emphasizes that the realization of leadership abilities is a continuous process that involves exposure and experience. Ms Kwinana contends that leadership qualities are not acquired through formal education but are inherent traits. She believes that individuals are born with the potential and ability to lead, and these qualities serve as the groundwork for effective leadership. While acknowledging the innate nature of leadership, Ms Kwinana stresses the importance of continuous development. Exposure to various experiences and learning opportunities is crucial in harnessing and refining these innate leadership qualities. Individuals need to immerse themselves in situations that allow them to understand key strategies, theories, and effective leadership practices. Ms Kwinana illustrates her perspective with the example of her grandmother, who assumed a leadership role without formal education in the field. Her grandmother’s leadership traits were inherent, and she developed them over time by navigating through various challenges and experiences. This 39 Ms Tokoza Kwinana highlighted the notion that leadership is not confined to formal education but involves a continuous learning journey. For Ms Kwinana, leadership development is a gradual and ongoing process. It involves recognizing and understanding the innate qualities within oneself and then actively seeking opportunities to enhance and apply these traits. It is not a quick process but rather a journey of selfdiscovery and refinement. 4. Women leaders are more aggressive than male leaders. What is your view on this statement? Kindly unpack it. Ms Tokoza provides a nuanced perspective on the perceptions of women in leadership roles, challenging the stereotype that labels assertiveness as aggression. Her insights underscore the complexities women face in asserting themselves within professional contexts. Ms Kwinana rejects the notion that women leaders are inherently aggressive, countering the stereotype with the belief that women possess empathy and compassion. She emphasizes that while most women leaders embody these qualities, there are instances where some adopt a colder and more dictatorial approach. According to Ms Kwinana, when women exhibit assertiveness, it is often misinterpreted as aggression. She highlights the challenge women face in navigating societal expectations, where they may be expected to take a backseat, leading to issues of inequality and gender bias. Ms Kwinana challenges the conventional expectation that women should remain passive in leadership roles. She contends that women standing up for themselves should not be perceived as aggression but rather as a legitimate assertion of their rights and capabilities. This challenge to traditional gender roles can, at times, lead to surprises and misconceptions. Despite the stereotype, Ms Kwinana asserts that women leaders can be both empathetic and assertive. She believes that women bring empathy to their leadership roles 40 Women in Leadership but may need to assert themselves to claim what is rightfully theirs or when advocating for their position at the table. Ms Kwinana suggests that even in cases where women leaders may adopt a dictatorial approach, a deeper examination may reveal that their behaviour is often a response to specific circumstances. These leaders may be striving for change, pushing a particular agenda, or adapting to a situation that requires a different approach. 5. What is the most important risk that you have had to take in your leadership journey and why? Ms Tokoza Kwinana provides a unique perspective on talent evaluation within the human resources domain, emphasizing the value of taking calculated risks in recruitment. Her insights challenge conventional expectations and highlight the potential for success in individuals who may not initially expectedly present themselves. She identifies a common challenge in the recruitment process, particularly in human resources. She also notes that individuals who may not initially appear to possess “polished communication skills” expected for a role are sometimes surprised by excelling once appointed. Expressing a willingness to take calculated risks, Ms Kwinana sees the recruitment of candidates who may not showcase their skills effectively during interviews as an opportunity. Despite the initial presentation, she believes in the potential for these individuals to excel and contribute significantly once they are given the chance. Ms Kwinana challenges the notion that articulate communicators always translate into successful employees. She observes that some candidates, despite presenting themselves well verbally, may falter when allowed to demonstrate their actual capabilities. This highlights the importance of looking beyond surfaceimpressions. Ms Kwinana acknowledges that taking a chance on individuals who may not fit the traditional mould can be perceived as risky. However, she firmly believes that, more often than not, these risks are justified, as the appointed 41 Ms Tokoza Kwinana individuals tend to exceed expectations and perform exceptionally well in their roles. In her view, the process of taking chances on individuals whose skills may not be immediately apparent is a strategic move that pays off in the long run. Ms Kwinana emphasizes that the potential for success in unconventional candidates outweighs the perceived risks associated with deviating from traditional recruitment norms. 6. How do you continue to grow, develop, and show up as a leader? Share your recipe for success. Ms Tokoza Kwinana underscores the significance of continuous learning, professional development, and the interconnectedness of personal well-being in her approach to her field. Her commitment to staying informed, embracing change, and fostering the growth of others highlights her dedication to positive influence within the workplace. She places great importance on staying current in her field, utilizing the accessibility of social media and actively participating in seminars and workshops. This commitment allows her to remain informed about industry trends, fostering an environment where learning, relearning, and unlearning become essential components of professional growth. For Ms Kwinana, continuous learning is not just a personal endeavour; it is a powerful tool for positive influence within the workplace. She recognizes that the ability to adapt and evolve positively impacts her influence, contributing to a dynamic and forward-thinking work environment. Ms Kwinana emphasizes the holistic approach of maintaining both physical and spiritual well-being. She asserts that the connection between the mind and heart is crucial, as it directly influences the quality of work and interactions with others. This holistic perspective aligns with her belief that personal well-being is intricately tied to professional success. A sense of pride in one’s work is another cornerstone of Ms Kwinana’s philosophy. She believes that taking pride in one’s output contributes to a positive work 42 Women in Leadership environment and, consequently, a positive influence. This pride is rooted in a dedication to continuous learning and a commitment to delivering high-quality results. Ms Kwinana actively works with and supports those around her, recognizing the importance of collective growth. Her leadership philosophy revolves around the idea that personal and professional development should extend beyond oneself. She strives to ensure that her growth positively impacts others, creating an environment where everyone has the opportunity to advance. 7. What does juggling a few balls mean for you? Ms Tokoza Kwinana imparts valuable insights into effective leadership, emphasizing strategic planning, accountability, and the importance of self-care. Her guidance centres around fostering interdependence within teams, ensuring clarity of instructions, resilience in the face of challenges, and the necessity of self-love for long-term success. Ms Kwinana highlights the significance of effective planning, acknowledging that while plans may evolve, having a wellthought-out strategy is crucial. She emphasizes the need to work with and through others, fostering interdependence within the team. The delicate balance of accountability ensures mutual support where she relies on her directors, and they, in turn, depend on her. Keeping oneself and the team accountable is a cornerstone of Ms Kwinana’s leadership philosophy. She stresses the importance of following up and following through on matters, especially when dealing with multiple responsibilities. This commitment to accountability ensures that tasks are completed efficiently and prevents issues from falling through the cracks. Ms Kwinana advocates for strategic guidance within a team, emphasizing the need for clear instructions. Resilience is identified as a key quality, acknowledging the challenges faced in the professional realm. She encourages 43 Ms Tokoza Kwinana the acknowledgement and forgiveness of mistakes and taking accountability when necessary. The importance of self-care is a central theme in Ms Kwinana’s approach. She stresses the need for leaders to allow themselves time to rest and recharge, acknowledging that continuous running can have negative long-term effects. Self-love is identified as an essential element for success and emphasizes that a leader’s well-being is the foundation of the success of the team. 8. If you were to put together a code of practice for women leaders, what would that code be and what would it look like? Ms Tokoza Kwinana articulates her leadership philosophy with a code titled ‘Authentic Leadership,’ which centres on being genuine, true to one’s convictions, leading by example, and inspiring others. This code emphasizes the core values of integrity and excellence, considering them as essential drivers for effective leadership and fundamental aspects of humanity. Ms Kwinana’s code underscores the importance of authenticity, urging leaders to be themselves and resist the temptation to mimic others entirely. While acknowledging the value of learning from different leadership styles, she advocates for incorporating these learnings in a way that aligns with one’s individuality. The code encourages leaders to lead by example, serving as role models for their teams. The aspiration is not only to guide but also to inspire others as they progress along their leadership journey. Ms Kwinana emphasizes the power of inspiration in cultivating a positive and motivated working environment. Integrity and excellence are identified as the bedrock of leadership, forming the ethical foundation upon which effective leadership is built. Ms Kwinana considers these principles to not only be integral to leadership success but also fundamental to defining humanity. 44 Women in Leadership Ms Kwinana introduces a metaphorical perspective with the “dance floor and balcony” analogy. Leaders are encouraged to actively participate on the “dance floor,” being engaged and part of the team. Simultaneously, they should intermittently step onto the “balcony” to gain a broader perspective, assessing the dynamics, recognizing different paces, and evaluating whether adjustments are needed. The balcony perspective allows leaders to observe the dance floor from a different angle, identifying areas that may need adjustment. Ms Kwinana notes the importance of recognizing individuals not following the steps, those dominating the floor, and those who may need a change of pace or song. This insight enables leaders to foster an inclusive and adaptable environment. As a specific call to women leaders, Ms Kwinana encourages them not only to be on the dance floor but also to stand on the balcony. This dual role allows for active engagement with the team while providing the necessary distance for strategic observation. It also promotes the idea of empowering new voices by making space for fresh perspectives and opportunities. 9. Wathinta Abafazi, Wathint’ Mbokodo? Mosadi Otswara Thipa ka Bo Galeng. These are a few statements that have existed, alluding to the strength of a woman. What is your view on them? Ms Tokoza Kwinana passionately affirms the inherent strength and resilience of women, celebrating their ability to overcome adversity with determination, courage, and adaptability. However, she challenges the common narratives that portray women solely as strong and resilient, emphasizing the importance of recognizing and embracing the softer aspects of their nature. Ms Kwinana acknowledges the undeniable strength of women, emphasizing their capacity to conquer any adversity that comes their way. She highlights their resilience, determination, and courageous leadership, traits that showcase the formidable nature of women. 51 Prof. Wai Sze Leung and learn from them. Ultimately, it’s about getting a seat at the table and being able to contribute. She said. 7. What does juggling a few balls mean to you? Professor Leung is a strong proponent of teamwork and believes in the importance of leadership responsibilities. She emphasizes the need to keep an eye on the collective goal and encourages her team to lead by example. Although she is understanding of colleagues with families, she insists that each team member must be diligent in fulfilling their responsibilities, which often requires working from 08:00 to 16:30. Despite setting high performance standards Professor Leung values family responsibilities above all else and is a family person herself. At the end of the day, the leader needs to trust her team and guide them when necessary. 8. If you were to put together a code of practice for women leaders, what would that code be and what would it look like? Professor Leung argues that women have diverse life experiences and circumstances. She believes that while some women face similar challenges, there are equally as many women who face different challenges. In her opinion, women are generally hesitant to admit when they are unsure and often feel overwhelmed by leadership roles. This is partly due to societal expectations and the unrealistic expectations that women place on themselves. Professor Leung does not believe that men generally place themselves under the same level of pressure as women; her male colleagues often say, “Fake it until you make it.” In her final analysis, she believes it’s alright for women to not know everything all the time, to make mistakes, and learn from them. 52 Women in Leadership 9. “Watinta Abafazi, Watint’Imbokodo” and “Mosadi o tshwara thipa ka bo galeng”, are sayings from the past that allude to the strength of women. What is your view on them? Professor Leung shares that the African saying highlights the strength of women. She draws upon the experiences of many women who are the heads of households in South Africa and have the sole responsibility of caring for their families. This is a perfect example of how strong women can be. She also talks about her grandmother who was a strong woman and challenged the culture of oppression. Her grandmother left her village in China with an umbrella in one hand and a few buttons in the other, in search of a better life in Hong Kong. Her courage and determination have been a guiding force for Professor Leung in moments of her own strength. Women play a crucial role in South African society. Professor Leung encourages all women to have faith in themselves, regardless of their circumstances. People may bring up your failures, but they are a necessary part of growth. Keep trying until you succeed and if you fail, dust yourself off and keep going. She believes that society has generally failed women and that women should support each other. She is proud of her sister who works in human rights and advocates for women’s rights. 10. What advice do you wish someone had given you at the beginning of your career and why? Professor Leung recommends that women who are beginning their careers should have faith in themselves. Despite the challenges and barriers, they may face, and even if they experience failure, they should maintain their confidence and always set attainable and practical objectives for themselves. Accomplished women who hold leadership positions must provide guidance and assistance to young and aspiring women leaders. It is their shared responsibility towards other women. 53 Dr Ndivhuwo Luruli Executive Director: Research Development and Support, University of Johannesburg Background Dr Ndivhuwo Luruli was born and raised in a village called Mauluma situated in the Nzhelele area of Venda. She spent her first 18 years there until she completed her matric. She spent her earlier years with her grandmother, Vho-Masindi, siblings and cousins. Her upbringing was characterized by a typical rural lifestyle engaging in the customary activities and experiences that a young girl in such an environment would encounter. This routine continued until she completed high school in 1999, at which point she began her studies at Stellenbosch University. As an adult, she is now the mother of two daughters – Anza (13) and Vhuthu (11) who keep her actively engaged. She is married to Nyambeni, whom she met during her time at Stellenbosch University. This constitutes her immediatefamily. 1. What were the early messages that you were hearing about the girl child? Regrettably, for her, it’s one of those stories where she didn’t come across much information or encouragement regarding the potential of a girl child, certainly not in a positive light. In her perception, it seemed as though she was destined to follow a predetermined path. Her upbringing took place in 54 Women in Leadership a household where Christian values were upheld, and the expectation was that, eventually, she would marry, have children, and reside in Venda. If she were fortunate, she might find employment in Thohoyandou. Reflecting on her past, she often finds herself at a loss to explain how her life has unfolded, because she lacked the kind of reference points that might have guided her towards different possibilities. Unfortunately, she wasn’t fortunate enough to have access to inspirational female role models beyond what might be referred to as the “pastor’s wife” archetype, or professions such as teaching or nursing. As a result, she felt destined to become a wife and a mother, and there weren’t many uplifting stories or examples to challenge this perception during her formative years. 2. What are some of the glaring obstacles facing women in leadership positions in the 21st century? She believes that when it comes to women and leadership, they can often be their own harshest critics and adversaries. She observes that women tend to place numerous obstacles in their own paths. In contrast, men, in her view, often possess a strong self-assuredness, believing they are born to take on any role or responsibility. She points out that this confidence doesn’t always translate into outstanding performance. Women, on the other hand, tend to second-guess themselves. Even in her current environment at the University of Johannesburg (UJ), she notices that when women are presented with opportunities, they frequently hesitate, thinking that the task may be too demanding or there might be too much on their plate. She also notes that women with families are quick to consider their family responsibilities, but she questions why the other parent isn’t equally responsible. Children, she emphasizes, are not solely the responsibility of mothers, and the other parents should also share the load. She believes it’s crucial for women to reach a point where they feel entitled to pursue opportunities with the same confidence as men if not more. Women often have the capacity 55 Dr Ndivhuwo Luruli to handle and excel in demanding roles, and they should recognise this. She argues that the primary barriers women face are often self-imposed, and if women tell themselves they can do something and go for it with determination, they can overcome these barriers. The key is to push forward, persistently seek opportunities, and keep knocking on doors. 3. Female leaders are born or made. Please elaborate, as you consider the fact that women have additional roles like childbearing and rearing that society still expects them to fulfil. She believes that when it comes to success, it’s a combination of both nature and nurture, but the nurturing aspect tends to play a more significant role. She explains that certain qualities like willpower, discipline, and focus are inherent to some extent. These traits, she thinks, are part of a person’s natural disposition and can vary from one individual to another. For instance, she gives an example from her own family, noting that her younger daughter appears to be naturally more focused than her older one. She has found that while she can encourage and instil certain behaviours in her older daughter, it doesn’t come as naturally to her. In her view, many of these inherent traits are present from birth, but they can also be influenced and enhanced through upbringing and earlyexperiences. She points out that some skills and personality traits, which are essential for success, can be learned and developed over time. A prime example she cites is work ethic. She believes that work ethic is something that can be cultivated and improved by anyone willing to put in the effort. As individuals grow and aspire to achieve specific career goals, they can identify the skills and qualities required in the workplace and actively work on developing them. In summary, she sees success as a combination of inherent qualities and learned behaviours. While some traits may be present from birth, many can be developed and honed 56 Women in Leadership through dedication, commitment, and discipline as individuals progress in their personal and professional lives. 4. Women leaders are more aggressive than male leaders. What is your view on this statement? She believes that one crucial aspect to recognise in the workplace is the prevalence of labels. In her view, individuals are inevitably labelled, whether the labels are positive or negative, and whether they align with one’s self-perception or not. These labels can vary widely from being described as “gorgeous,” “soft-spoken,” and “kind” to potentially being labelled as “antisocial.” She acknowledges that, often, women’s voices go unheard, and this can lead to situations where confident individuals may dominate conversations, even if they are not necessarily leading in the right direction. She highlights the challenge women face when they find themselves in situations where their voices are silenced merely because of their gender. This, she believes, can push women to assert themselves more aggressively to be heard. She argues that this assertiveness is not necessarily a natural trait but rather a response to the need to be recognised and heard. Women sometimes need to speak up forcefully to ensure their opinions are acknowledged and valued in maledominatedspaces. She suggests that women often exhibit different personalities in professional and personal settings, emphasising the need to adapt to different environments. In professional spaces, some women may feel the need to be more assertive and vocal to overcome the biases they encounter. She acknowledges that this behaviour change is often driven by external factors and the dynamics of the workplace, rather than being a true reflection of an individual’s personality. Ultimately, she believes that women should not be confined to predefined labels or expected to conform to certain behaviours. Instead, she emphasises the importance of creating inclusive environments where women are treated as 57 Dr Ndivhuwo Luruli equals and their diverse strengths and qualities are recognised and appreciated, without the need for forceful assertiveness. 5. What is the most important risk you have had to take on your leadership journey and why? She acknowledges that one of the challenging aspects of her role as a leader is having to initiate disciplinary processes for employees who exhibit poor performance. Despite her dislike of this aspect of her job, she emphasises that it’s a task she has had to undertake numerous times. She views it as a necessary step not only for the sake of the organisation but also for her reputation as a leader. She believes that when employees underperform and leaders fail to address the issue, it reflects poorly on both parties. She states that a sense of risk is associated with every disciplinary process, as the outcome is uncertain. Each instance presents a unique set of circumstances, making it impossible to predict how it will unfold. She recalls having to handle similar situations in her previous jobs, even going so far as to encourage some staff members to resign when they were not a good fit for their roles. Surprisingly, she maintains contact with these individuals, showing a genuine interest in their well-being. In her efforts to help staff members find the right fit, she has engaged in conversations about their interests and strengths. When an employee was unhappy due to a misalignment between their role and their true interests, she facilitated transitions to more suitable positions. She believes that by aligning employees with roles that match their passions, they are more likely to excel and contribute positively to the organisation. She has experienced success in helping several individuals transition to roles they are genuinely passionate about, thereby ensuring that her team comprises individuals who are dedicated to their work and can contribute to her team’s success. 58 Women in Leadership 6. How do you continue to grow, develop, and show up as a leader? Can you share your recipe for success? What Dr Luruli values and upholds the most is a robust work ethic and considers herself as notably focused. She attributes the foundation of her work ethic to her deep passion for her profession. She genuinely loves what she does, and this love fuels her dedication. For her, the enthusiasm for her work transcends traditional working hours. She recalls instances where she willingly stayed late, even until midnight, to complete tasks such as submission of grant applications. She mentions a specific occasion when she had to interrupt a family dinner at a restaurant to attend a late meeting, all while maintaining her laptop at hand. Her commitment to her job is such that she seized the opportunity to resolve a professor’s struggle with an EU grant application issue during that family outing. She emphasises that her work isn’t just a job but rather a source of fulfilment and satisfaction. Her disciplined approach, unwavering focus, and commitment to excellence are inherent traits that she believes she was born with. She takes pride in her ability to get the job done efficiently and without compromise, always striving for excellence. Additionally, she acknowledges the importance of finding outlets that help her switch off from work-related stress and maintain a healthy work-life balance. 7. What does juggling a few balls mean to you? She reveals that she has a natural inclination to stay busy and productive throughout the day, and she doesn’t mind it at all. Having the ability to multitask and engage in various activities keeps her content. She recalls a time when she had to step into the acting Executive Director: Research and Innovation role when the previous incumbent left UJ, but she continued to handle her regular responsibilities as Director without any reductions in her workload. Despite these added 59 Dr Ndivhuwo Luruli responsibilities, she and her team continued to meet, and for the most part, exceeded their targets successfully. For her, the key is to avoid boredom at all costs, as she readily admits to getting bored easily. She takes pride in her capacity to effectively balance her work commitments with her personal life, suggesting that she juggles both aspects quite skilfully. In essence, she thrives on the challenge of keeping herself engaged and productive, relishing the opportunity to accomplish more than one task in a day. 8. If you were to put together a code of practice for women leaders, what would that code be and what would it look like? She offers valuable advice to women, especially those in leadership positions, emphasising the importance of owning one’s space and roles with confidence. She encourages women to take charge and not hesitate to fully embrace the responsibilities they are given, regardless of the nature or significance of those roles. She acknowledges that sometimes women may feel the need to convince themselves or others of their qualifications for a role when they should simply step into it and run with it. Furthermore, she stresses the need for women to be kind to themselves. She recognises that women often struggle with self-imposed pressure to constantly be busy and productive. She occasionally reminds herself to take short breaks and relax, even if it’s just for a few minutes with a cup of tea, before diving back into work. She also addresses the issue of women feeling apologetic about their family commitments in the workplace. She shares a personal anecdote about a clash between a work commitment and her daughter’s Grade R graduation day. In this situation, she unapologetically prioritised her family over work, realising that her child’s milestone event was a once-in-a-lifetime experience. She firmly believes that women should not feel compelled to apologise for making 60 Women in Leadership such choices, even in executive roles, as they are not just professionals but also wives and mothers. She humorously underscores the importance of making oneself available for love and not becoming so busy that loved ones cannot find the time toconnect. Overall, her advice centres on empowerment, selfcompassion, and recognising the value of balancing personal and professional responsibilities without feeling the need to apologise for making family a priority when necessary. 9. “Watinta Abafazi, Watint’Imbokodo” and “Mosadi o tshwara thipa ka bo galeng” are sayings from the past that allude to the strength of women. What is your view of them? She reflects on a realisation she had about the expectations placed on women. She acknowledges that while there is a lot of talk about women being strong and resilient, it’s equally important to recognise that it’s okay for women to embrace their vulnerability and not constantly feel the need to be the “rock” or the one who takes charge in every situation. She believes that sometimes women can push themselves to take on too much and adopt the role of the unyielding, ever-capable “rock,” and this can lead to unnecessary stress and burnout. She shares that she has learned the value of occasionally allowing herself to be vulnerable and not always feeling the need to be in control or to handle everything herself. She mentions conversations with her husband, where she expressed her desire to take a step back and not be the one who always must take on every challenge. She recognises that while she is fully capable of handling a wide range of responsibilities, it doesn’t mean she should take on everything all the time. She emphasises the importance of intentionally choosing moments to be the “damsel in distress,” metaphorically speaking. By doing so, she believes women can avoid falling into the cycle of constantly overextending themselves and then complaining about it later. She acknowledges the 67 Ms Nomsa Mahlangu her daughter due to work commitments. She admitted that her daughter was raised by everyone in her family except herself. Although it was a risk, Nomsa believed that it paid off in the end. She was able to reconnect with her daughter when they lived together during her daughter’s tertiary education. 6. How do you continue to grow, develop, and show up as a leader? Share your recipe for success. The hallmark of a leader is authenticity according to Ms Nomsa. She believes that the best version of oneself must always be to show up. Ms Nomsa argues that being the best agent of oneself requires self-reflection, as well as surrounding oneself with people who know how to bring out the best in you. She sees herself as a leader who leads through consultations and consensus-building. Education is important, but so is building personal relationships and surrounding oneself with people who both agree and disagree with you. Most importantly, Ms Nomsa believes that people should add value to one another. 7. What does juggling a few balls mean to you? Navigating multiple roles at the same time comes with the territory of being a woman leader. Juggling different roles simultaneously requires good resources and time management. However, it’s crucial not to allow any role to dominate or suffer. According to Ms Nomsa, your mental and physical health should not be compromised in the process. It’s a delicate balancing act where treating everything as a priority while keeping yourself as a priority and focusing on your goals is key. If you were to put together a code of practice for women leaders, what would that code be and what would it look like? “Well, for me, being a woman leader means a few things, but the most important is being aware of who I am and what I represent to others. It’s about promoting fairness, including everyone, growing professionally, and giving back. 68 Women in Leadership “As women leaders, it’s up to us to bring solutions. We’ve got to be the ones speaking up for equality and making sure everyone feels included. That means getting involved in mentorship programs and creating opportunities we may not have had ourselves. We’ve also got to support young leaders, both boys and girls. Sometimes we focus too much on girls and forget about the boys. We need to be genuine in our support. I remember when I was starting out, people thought I was too rude or aggressive. But if I see a young person acting like me, I want to encourage them and say it’s okay to be yourself, even if society judges you unfairly. And let’s talk about equal pay. It’s something we still need to fight for. When we’re in positions of influence and see unfairness, we can’t just let it slide. We have a responsibility to change things. We’ve also got to empower young people and be good at resolving conflicts without taking sides. Communication is key. And we should support the growth of others, doing things that maybe weren’t done for us. And let’s not forget about policies. We need to push for changes in the rules and guidelines of the organizations we’re part of. We’ve got to be the change we want to see. But it’s also important to be self-aware, to understand how our actions and words impact those around us”. 8. “Watinta Abafazi, Watint’Imbokodo” and “Mosadi o tshwara thipa ka bo galeng”, are sayings from the past that allude to the strength of women. What is your view on them? “I don’t agree with those statements. You see, they were meant to celebrate and appreciate women’s strength. However, they also have negative meanings. For me, there are both positive and negative sides to them. I don’t agree with the negative parts, but the positive aspects are important. It’s crucial to 69 Ms Nomsa Mahlangu recognize women’s strength and resilience, but we shouldn’t lose ourselves in the process. Let me give you an example from my own life. In the society where I live, some people have labelled me in a negative way because I’m turning 50 and unmarried, while most of my peers are married. This shows how unfair culture can be to women. In my leadership journey, particularly when I was in the SAFA executive, I experienced discrimination based on how I dressed. Some men wouldn’t talk to me when I wore pants, but they would if I wore skirts.” 9. What advice do you wish someone had given you at the beginning of your career and why? “It’s totally fine to just be yourself. Remember, you’re only human. Sometimes, I felt like I needed to hold back and not be too bold because I was scared. Society doesn’t always expect women to be in certain roles. Maybe I would have achieved more by now if I’d been reassured that it’s okay to be where I am and do what I’m doing. Back then, it would have helped if someone had told me that learning doesn’t just come from qualifications and certificates. There’s so much more to it. I wish I had someone guide me to find a mentor and seek feedback actively to grow as a leader. If that had happened, I might have avoided some mistakes and not come across as intimidating to others. People might have felt more comfortable talking to me instead of being scared that I’d snap at them for no reason.” 71 Associate Prof. Kirti Menon Senior Director: Division for Teaching Excellence, University of Johannesburg Background Prof. Kirti revealed that it has been a long journey because she is almost at the end of her career. She began as a schoolteacher, moving on to become a lecturer. With the advent of democracy, she began to do the work of reconstructing our society through education and worked on several projects for the government. For example, she worked on research projects like the schools audit in Gauteng, the UNEPTSA bursary programme. In 2000, she was offered a consultancy with the then Committee of University Principals (CUP), which then became SAUVCA, HESA and is now USAF. The core of her work then was to create an institution that would be transformed and more inclusive. In 2001, she joined the Council of Higher Education where she stayed for nine years as the Director of Accreditation and National Reviews. Prof. Kirti’s growth from being Director for nine years saw her move to the Department of Higher Education and Training as Chief Director: Institutional Planning. Shortly after moving into the position, she became the acting Deputy Director General: Universities Branch and then went off and completed her PhD and joined UJ in 2015. She was appointed as Director: Academic Planning. She shared that she had a great deal of experience in the domain that she was appointed into, and this included vast knowledge in academic planning, and familiarity with government 72 Women in Leadership legislation and other regulatory frameworks relevant. She is excited about her journey and is proud of her more than 25 years in higher education. This has provided her with a ringside seat to the higher education that she is passionate about. In 2017, as a result of reconfiguration of functions, she was appointed as Senior Director of the now named Division for Teaching Excellence as such is an invited member of ELG. 1. What were the early messages that you were hearing as a girl child? Messages that came from people you look up to and messages that ended up inspiring you in your leadership journey. Prof. Kirti mentioned that she was brought up with significant role models who were activists and did not consider themselves bound by gender distinctions. She thinks that she was very fortunate in her career to have the CHE where her immediate boss was a woman academic who was well respected in the sector. She added, “I think that I was very fortunate to have so many women leaders who forced us to think outside the general conventional societal definitions of women”. Furthermore, Prof. Kirti pointed out that her parents were quite focused, and determined that the children go to university. As a first generation university graduate, growing into independence was encouraged. . 2. What are some of the glaring obstacles for women to take on leadership positions in the 21st Century? She said she believes there is a general perception about what women are capable of achieving, although she personally hasn’t faced much of it herself. However, she recognizes that these perceptions can be problematic. Additionally, she says, there are the usual responsibilities and challenges of managing multitasking. 73 Associate Prof. Kirti Menon 3. Are female leaders born or made? Please elaborate as you consider the fact that most women have additional roles like childbearing and childrearing that require them to still focus. Prof. Kirti pointed out that she was very fortunate to have a husband and daughter who encouraged and supported her in her career. This allowed her the space to juggle multiple roles whilst still focusing on her career. 4. Women leaders are more aggressive than male leaders. What is your view on this statement? Kindly unpack it. Prof. Kirti suspects that this statement is probably entertained because people do not believe nor understand that women can be leaders too. The same steering and charting out a particular direction for one’s division or a domain may come across as being aggressive when you are a woman. According to her, in instances where it is a man standing up, being consistent, being assertive, and pushing boundaries, no one would question it or deem it aggressive. 5. What is the most important risk you have had to take in your leadership journey and why? The biggest risk Prof. Kirti took was leaving a full-time job to complete her Ph.D. and that is because she was in a managerial position, and they were not given a sabbatical. She had moved from academia into government and into managerial positions, which shifted her focus, however, it did not mean that she had shifted her desire to do scholarly work. With excitement, she added that a week before this interview in 2023, SENEX approved her promotion to associate professorship. She is ecstatic about her achievements and acknowledges that she is ending her career on a high. There are still some regrets that she delayed working as a scholar alongside her other jobs. 74 Women in Leadership 6. How do you continue to grow, develop, and show up as a leader? Share your recipe for success. According to Prof. Kirti, passion and knowledge are important . She sleeps, dreams and breathes her work, and is constantly keeping herself up to date with new developments in her field both nationally and internationally. She constantly tries to infuse the same sense of passion amongst her staff. She added that higher education is changing constantly, and ideally, the University of Johannesburg must innovate along with it. UJ offers an exciting space as it welcomes innovation with no compromises made in its quest for social justice. She is proud of the strides that the Division for Teaching Excellence is making, indicating that it is well-known for being innovative and at the forefront in terms of the work undertaken. Prof. Kirti also mentioned that her recipe for success includes sitting quietly and doing her work, additionally, leading and inspiring change in teaching and learning within the broad higher education environment in South Africa, noting also the rapid disruptions in technology spaces. 7. What does juggling a few balls mean for you? Prof. Kirti reckons that, over the years one gets used to managing multiple tasks because people play different roles and these overlap, interlink, interconnect and one begins to develop a little rhythm and a system. Prof. Kirti shared that she believes that she is pretty well organized, “I am very well planned, I know a week in advance what our plans are in the household, and I know what our plans are at work. I can organize myself accordingly and recalibrate if required,” sheshares. 8. If you were to put together a code of practice for women leaders, what would that code be and what would it look like? Prof. Kirti thinks that one should be passionate about what they do and be deeply respectful to others around them. 75 Associate Prof. Kirti Menon Integrity and ethical practice should be central in everything that is undertaken. Irrespective of race, gender, and class. Prof. Kirti is passionate about higher education she shares, “It is in my blood”. Her message is, “to be enthusiastic, respectful, to keep abreast with the trends in your work environment and to manage all the balls that you have to juggle, and to do so with some level of organization”. Furthermore, she mentioned that it comes with understanding, for example, she has a lot of women in her division, and she understands what it means to have loadshedding. “For example, when you have two small children at home and you’re going to go home to four hours of loadshedding, her thought is, “How best can I as your manager assist you because I know that not everyone can afford to Uber eats every day. So, ensuring that she is sensitive and attuned to the needs of her staff is important. 9. Wathint’ Abafazi, Wathint’ Imbokodo? Mosadi Otshwara Thipa Ka Bo galeng. These are but a few statements that have existed, alluding to the strength of a woman. What is your view on them? For Prof. Kirti, these statements are quite true, if she looks at women in leadership in higher education, there are examples of women who have led from the front, despite the noise that goes with one’s job. 10. What advice you wish someone had given you at the beginning of your career? And why? According to Prof. Kirti, the advice she would give to someone is that they should finish their PhD early in life. 83 Dr Nompumelelo Mkhize not just about changing industries, but about aligning her professional path with her long-term goals and aspirations. In hindsight, Dr Mkhize views this risk as essential to her growth and fulfilment as both a leader and an individual. 6. How do you continue to grow, develop and show up as a leader? Share your recipe for success. Dr Mkhize’s approach to continuous growth is deeply rooted in self-awareness and humility. She emphasizes the importance of acknowledging that, as a leader, you do not and cannot know everything. In her view, taking on a leadership role does not signify that you have “arrived” or that you now possess all the answers. Leaders must avoid the mindset that, because they hold a position of authority, they are always right and everyone else is wrong. For Dr Mkhize, leadership is not about having all the knowledge but about maintaining an openness to learning. This learning, she explains, is not limited to formal education or returning to university for additional qualifications. Instead, it involves immersing oneself in understanding the portfolio or department they are responsible for. She uses the example of Prof. Mpedi to illustrate this point. Although he may not hold specific qualifications in engineering, humanities, or health sciences, he is still highly effective in overseeing these diverse areas. “He understands what output should look like,” Dr Mkhize explains. In her view, the key to success lies in a leader’s ability to determine what the desired outcomes are and identify the right people to help achieve those goals. Once a leader has a clear vision of the output and has surrounded themselves with the right team, they are well-positioned to succeed. Dr Mkhize stresses the importance of staying informed and up to date with the responsibilities of one’s portfolio, but just as crucially, of recognizing the value of the expertise and skills of those around you. A great leader, she argues, is one who collaborates with and heavily relies on their team members, allowing them to excel in their respective areas of expertise. Success is not achieved by thinking you have all the answers, but by working together with your team to achieve shared goals. Ultimately, Dr Mkhize believes that a leader must never think they have “arrived” but should always remain open to learning, growing, and trusting in the people around them to win and succeedtogether. 7. What does juggling a few balls mean for you? Dr Mkhize emphasises that juggling multiple “balls” requires a deep understanding of oneself. For her, this introspective journey begins with a crucial question: “What would the world have missed had I not been born?” This reflection allows her to identify socio-economic issues that resonate with her values and commitments. By holding herself accountable, she continually evaluates what actions she is taking to address these issues. She challenges herself with the thought: if not her, then who will take on this responsibility? This commitment led Dr Mkhize to establish the Nompumelelo Foundation, an initiative dedicated to supporting illiterate children in South African townships. Recognizing the urgent need for educational resources and support in these communities, she felt compelled to make a tangible difference in their lives. In addition to her philanthropic efforts, Dr Mkhize actively engages in various personal and professional endeavours. She runs a book club with women leaders she has met throughout her leadership journey, fostering a community of learning and support. Dr Mkhize also plays golf, which serves as a recreational outlet amidst her busy schedule. Moreover, she is a devoted fulltime mother, fully aware of the impact her presence has on her children. She believes that integrity fuels her ability to juggle these various responsibilities. For Dr Mkhize, life is about showing up and honouring commitments, even when the circumstances are challenging. “Even when I am coughing, I will die in that meeting,” she shares, underscoring her dedication. “I just need to show up for my kids. It’s important for a parent to be present because, in doing so, you teach 85 Dr Nompumelelo Mkhize your kids that life is not about giving excuses.” She asserts that being fully engaged teaches her children the value of commitment and accountability. Dr Mkhize is keenly aware that her presence matters, both as a mother and a leader. She strives to ensure that neither her children nor her team members feel the absence of a “mother” or “leader.” This sense of responsibility means that no “balls” should be dropped. As a woman leader, her focus is on staying organized and on top of her responsibilities, ensuring that tasks are completed even when she feels overwhelmed or exhausted. Her approach exemplifies the importance of resilience, commitment, and the unwavering pursuit of excellence in all aspects of her life. 8. If you could put together a code of practice for women leaders, what would that code be and how would it look like? Dr Mkhize outlines her personal code of conduct for women leaders, beginning with the imperative to “Keep abreast!” This principle underscores the importance of being aware and informed. She cites Prof. Marwala, who poignantly states, “Those who cannot read cannot lead.” Dr Mkhize clarifies that this statement should not be interpreted literally; rather, it highlights the necessity for leaders to be cognisant of their surroundings and the context in which they operate. For Dr Mkhize, keeping abreast means being informed about current affairs, including everyday issues such as the price of petrol, bread, and eggs. It involves understanding economic indicators like the Consumer Price Index (CPI) and recognizing how these factors can affect both oneself and the people being led. She reinforces Prof. Marwala’s assertion by explaining that “a leader who cannot read should not lead people,” as this lack of awareness hinders a leader’s ability to empathize with their team. “You are literally going to be closed off from your people,” she notes. “We are leaders through people, not because we are great, but through the people that we lead.” 86 Women in Leadership The second tenet of her code is “Be a mosquito!” Here, Dr Mkhize draws inspiration from Prof. Mpedi, who uses the metaphor of a mosquito to illustrate the importance of persistent awareness and disruption. Prof. Mpedi notes that although a mosquito is small, it produces an irritating noise that disrupts sleep until it is acknowledged. In the context of leadership, Dr Mkhize explains that leaders must challenge and “irritate” existing structures and the status quo until they are recognized. She believes that true leadership involves continuously pushing boundaries and advocating for the platforms they create. “One is never truly a leader if they do not irritate the status quo,” she asserts. The third principle in Dr Mkhize’s code is “Do what you say you are going to do!” A leader must keep their promises. “If you say you are going to deliver, deliver—even if you are not feeling well. Even when it is uncomfortable or you do not personally believe in what you are delivering, you must fulfil your mandate,” she emphasizes. For Dr Mkhize, accountability to one’s commitments is paramount and is part of what distinguishes effective leaders. The fourth point is “Integrity”. Dr Mkhize highlights the critical nature of integrity, noting that it speaks on behalf of a leader, even in their absence. She shares a powerful example: when a leader embodies integrity, their team members might say, “If only our leader were here, this would have been done, and not just done but done exceedingly well.” Integrity thus builds a foundation of trust and respect that endures beyond a leader’s presence. Finally, the fifth tenet of Dr Mkhize’s code of conduct is “Credibility”. She believes that possessing both integrity and credibility creates a strong reputation that will speak volumes on a leader’s behalf, even after they have departed from this world. Dr Mkhize’s code underscores the essential qualities of self-awareness, persistence, accountability, integrity, and credibility as foundational elements for effective leadership, particularly for women in leadership roles. 87 Dr Nompumelelo Mkhize 9. Watint’ Abafazi Watint’ Imbokodo and Mosadi Otshwara Thipa Ka BoGaleng. These are a few statements that have existed alluding to the strength of a woman. What is your view on them? Dr Mkhize reflects on powerful statements such as “You strike a woman; you strike a rock” and “A woman holds a knife at the sharpest edge.” While these phrases may be criticized or shunned in the latter days, she expresses a deep understanding of their origins. In her view, these statements highlight the tenacity inherent in women. She believes that women are naturally resilient and tend not to give up easily; they are “called to a higher power.” For Dr Mkhize, the notion of being meek and apologetic is counterproductive. “Yay!” she exclaims passionately, “if you adopt that mindset, you will struggle, you will not survive.” She emphasizes the importance of strength and resilience in navigating life’s challenges, particularly forwomen. Dr Mkhize resonates strongly with the sentiments expressed in these statements. She does not shy away from being compared to a rock; in fact, she embraces it. “Mark me absent,” she declares, indicating that she rejects the idea of being perceived as soft or weak. Instead, she aspires to embody the qualities of an educated, strong, and powerful woman. “I want to be a woman who stands for her family, who stands tall at work, and who shows up all the time,” she states emphatically. She articulates her desire to make her time on earth meaningful, recognizing that her presence has significance. “If I were not here, a lot would have been lost by the people on this earth,” she reflects. This awareness fuels her determination to be impactful in her community and to lead with purpose. Dr Mkhize wholeheartedly identifies with the statements she discusses, viewing them as affirmations of strength, resilience, and the unwavering commitment to contribute positively to the world around her. In doing so, she champions a vision of womanhood that is rooted in power, accountability, and a profound understanding of one’s worth and impact. 88 Women in Leadership 10. What advice do you wish someone had given you at the beginning of your career and why? Dr Mkhize reflects on her journey and expresses a desire that someone should have advised her early on that she would encounter people from all walks of life, and that through these encounters, she need not change who she is. This realization stems from hearing popular advice aimed at women leaders— tips such as “be as firm as a man,” give strong handshakes, or wear suits to meetings. These notions suggest that success for women in leadership requires adopting traditionally masculine traits. However, Dr Mkhize challenges this belief. She argues that when women try to mould themselves to fit into leadership roles that society has historically associated with men, they risk losing something valuable: their inherent femininity. “We slowly lose what God has given us,” she says, stressing that there is no need to relinquish femininity in order to lead effectively. For her, being a leader does not require compromising the qualities that make women unique; instead, she advocates for women to lead authentically, embracing who they are without conforming to external expectations. Dr Mkhize also wishes she had been told earlier not to overextend herself for work that will still be there tomorrow. This profound reflection underscores the importance of balance, particularly in the demanding world of work and leadership. She stresses that it is essential to prioritize one’s health and well-being, recognizing that overworking can lead to burnout. “Take care of yourself today,” she advises, “so that you can perform at your optimal best tomorrow.” For Dr Mkhize, self-care is not a luxury but a necessity for sustained success. By maintaining a healthy balance between personal well-being and professional responsibilities, women leaders can continue to thrive in leadership roles without sacrificing their authenticity or their health. In essence, Dr Mkhize’s message is clear: women can lead powerfully without having to conform to rigid societal expectations, and they must prioritize their own well-being to maintain their ability to lead effectively in the long run. 89 Prof. Kammila Naidoo Executive Dean: Faculty of Humanities, University of Johannesburg Background Prof. Kammila Naidoo grew up in Durban. Her childhood was spent in the inner city of Durban where her parents worked. This exposed her to the lively and diverse environment of Durban City. She recalls the city and the places in which she lived as being multi-ethnic and integrated. During the 1970s, she attended St Anthony’s School in Centenary Road. Despite her Hindu background and her parents not being particularly religious, she developed a strong connection to the school. She was notably enthusiastic about her education, and the school’s teachers and principal recognised her dedication. At the age of eleven, she was entrusted with the responsibility of leading the school in prayer, a role that she found to be a powerful experience. Standing next to her principal, she would instruct everyone to bow their heads, setting the tone for her future role as a dean. In addition to her academic pursuits, she did well in sports during her time at the Roman Catholic school. Although it may be surprising to some, she was an athlete who participated in various sports, including running and netball. Her educational journey continued when she transitioned to a high school in Pietermaritzburg, Raisethorpe Secondary School. This new institution marked a considerable change from her previous Roman Catholic school, as it was a secular and more authoritarian educational 90 Women in Leadership environment. It was during her high school years that she developed an intense sense of political awareness. She hailed from a politically active family with some relatives in exile. While acknowledging that the political landscape has evolved over the years, she reflects on the different nature of politics during her youth compared to the contemporary political climate. She recalls that her political awakening occurred during her high school years, marking a departure from her earlier reputation as a diligent student who led the school prayer. She began asking critical questions and also delved into feminist literature which ignited her interest in feminism. This newfound consciousness led her to make a bold statement by cutting her long hair and adorning herself with feminist stickers that proclaimed women’s rightful place in the world. This journey of conscientisation and politicisation steered her towards the humanities. Although she could have followed one of many career paths, her desire to contribute to positive change and understand the evolving South African context, influenced her to study the arts (specifically, sociology, politics, economics, and communication) at the University of Durban-Westville. Her early career took shape at Unisa in the 1990s, just before the democratic elections in South Africa. Unisa, a largely white institution at the time, posed some challenges for her because she was not fluent in Afrikaans. To bridge this gap, she underwent special training to become more competent in Afrikaans. Despite the initial linguistic hurdles, she performed well as a lecturer at Unisa and began her journey in the field of distance education. Her experience of day-to-day living in Pretoria was markedly different from that which she experienced in Durban, and she found herself adjusting to an unfamiliar environment. However, she enjoyed the change and found Pretoria to be fresh and distinct. In particular, the sociology department at UNISA was young and liberal, emphasising cultural understanding and openness to other perspectives. Her time at 91 Prof. Kammila Naidoo Unisa also led to an opportunity for further academic growth when she received a Commonwealth Scholarship in 1997 to begin a PhD in the United Kingdom. She was then granted unpaid leave to pursue her studies in the United Kingdom for three years. This experience turned out to be life-changing, as it exposed her to an entirely different academic and sociopolitical environment. She dedicated herself to her studies and managed to complete her PhD in Sociology within the tight three-year time and budget constraints. The sense of urgency and purpose left her with no room for excuses, and she worked tirelessly to achieve her academic goals. Upon her return from the UK, she found herself growing restless in the field of distance education. She began to contemplate a change in her academic path and decided to transition to a new institution. She did not venture too far, as she made the move to the University of Pretoria (UP). Her career trajectory was marked by considerable progress. She moved from being a Senior Lecturer to an Associate Professor, actively engaging in various academic activities such as teaching, research, and mentoring. Her influence extended beyond the Department, as she played a pivotal role in driving the gender studies program within her faculty. She also started to take on responsibilities related to supervision, mentorship, and training, witnessing her first doctoral students graduate— an exhilarating experience for her. In September 2010, she embarked on another significant chapter in her academic journey by joining the University of Johannesburg. Over the years, she has amassed experience in academia, with a rich history of professional development and a commitment to education and mentorship along the way. Throughout her life journey, she endured the trials and tribulations of family life, work-life balance, and motherhood, all of which gave shape and direction to her professional trajectory within the academic realm. Her overarching goal as an academic has been to foster the growth and development of others. Being an educator and seeing her students thrive and reach their full potential has been a source of immense 92 Women in Leadership satisfaction for her. She firmly believes that there is nothing more rewarding than being a dedicated teacher and making a positive impact on the lives of her students. Throughout her career, she has strived to maintain a strong ethical foundation and a genuine sense of care for those she interacts with. She acknowledges that her path has been far from smooth, with numerous obstacles and challenges to overcome. However, she believes that she has navigated through these initial difficulties to carve out a meaningful and impactful career in academia. In her current role as Dean of Humanities at the University of Johannesburg, she expresses contentment with the integrated and purpose-driven environment. She values the University’s commitment to Pan-African ideals and sees herself as a part of this vibrant academic space. Reflecting on her career trajectory, she acknowledges the effort she put into building her path at each stage. From the 1990s to the 2000s, she observed a fundamental transformation within institutions. Notably, she perceived a brisk shift in the landscape of women’s leadership roles. In 2013, she assumed the role of Head of the Department of Sociology at UJ, marking a significant milestone. While there had been women in leadership roles before, she believes that she may have been the first woman of colour to hold this position in the department. This change is emblematic of a broader shift in her generation, where women are gaining more opportunities in leadership positions. Furthermore, her journey took her to the position of a woman dean, which was still an unusual occurrence at the time in the humanities. She notes that, along with her, there are now many other women deans in their respective fields, most of whom may also be pioneers in their roles. This gradual transformation highlights the evolving landscape of leadership within academia. She emphasises that the current state of progress was not achieved without considerable hard work and dedication. The journey has been marked by a commitment to 99 Prof. Kammila Naidoo In addition to being agile, she believes in thorough planning and event coordination. Celebrating successes and achievements within her institution helps maintain a positive atmosphere and high morale. Overall, she advocates for a proactive and vigilant approach at all levels of leadership, which includes staying creative, managing day-to-day responsibilities efficiently, and celebrating successes. 7. If you were to put together a code of practice for women leaders, what would the code be and what would it look like? She emphasises the importance of continuously investing in oneself, particularly in acquiring formal qualifications. Women leaders are often scrutinised based on their qualifications, and she notes that women may even need to possess more qualifications than their male counterparts to compete effectively. Beyond formal qualifications, she underscores the significance of developing strong social and emotional skills, as they play a crucial role in how a leader interacts with others, presents themselves, and is perceived by others. She acknowledges that many women leaders grapple with imposter syndrome, a feeling of inadequacy despite their achievements. Building self-confidence is essential in overcoming this challenge and thriving in leadership roles. To do so, she believes it’s essential to acquire the skills needed to manage oneself effectively. In her view, a good woman leader is not only self-aware, but also highly attuned to the political and environmental dynamics surrounding them. Understanding the broader context allows leaders to offer strategic solutions and navigate complex challenges. This requires being well-informed about institutional goals and having the ability to think strategically. Additionally, she notes that women leaders often operate in relative isolation and may not have strong networks. She advocates for the importance of building and leveraging networks, seeking mentors, and collaborating with others. 100 Women in Leadership The support and guidance of mentors and peers have been instrumental in the success of many women leaders, and she encourages women to actively seek out such support to excel on their paths to progress. 8. Watinta Abafazi, Watint’Imbokodo? Mosadi Otshwara Thipa Ka Bo Galeng. These are but a few sayings from the past that allude to the strength of women. What is your view on them? She believes that there are several statements hinting at the strength of women. She acknowledges that while women can indeed be strong and powerful, it is essential not to adopt an invincible facade. She points out that sometimes, women celebrate their strength to the point where they neglect their vulnerabilities. She emphasises that there are moments when women do break, and during those times, it is crucial to care for themselves and seek support. In her perspective, women should embrace both their strengths and weaknesses. They shouldn’t feel compelled to present themselves as tough as rocks, on par with macho men in unwavering resilience. Instead, she aligns with the UJ Chancellor’s feminist approach (offered at the 2023 Helen Joseph Memorial Lecture) that recognises the complexities of ‘being human’ in the 21st century. She draws a parallel to the past, such as the strategic use of portraying women as unbreakable rocks during events like the 1956 Women’s March. However, in the present era, where human rights, gender rights, and democracy prevail, there is no need to maintain the facade of being indestructible. Instead, it is possible to acknowledge and address susceptibilities without compromising one’s strength. Overall, she appreciates the approach presented in the lecture hall, which aligns with the idea that women can be strong while recognising their vulnerabilities and the need for prioritising care and support. 101 Prof. Kammila Naidoo 9. What advice did you wish someone had given you at the beginning of your career and why? She reflects on her own journey in leadership, noting that she spent a significant portion of her career in a teaching role, before being encouraged to step into leadership positions, such as becoming the head of a department and eventually a dean. She confesses that she never imagined herself in these leadership roles and initially viewed it as playing a game. She expresses a desire for someone to have recognised her leadership potential earlier in her career and encouraged her to take on leadership roles. She believes that there may have been a misconception that she was primarily a supportive and “nice” person who excelled in the background rather than in leadership positions. Her perspective is that women often tend to take on supportive roles and help others to lead but are slow or hesitant to see themselves as potential leaders. She regrets that she was not encouraged or did not see the possibility of playing a leadership role earlier in her career, possibly around 15 years ago. She believes that women should be encouraged to start their leadership journeys early, rather than waiting until they are deemed more mature to be respected in leadershiproles. Ultimately, she advocates for nurturing and empowering younger women to take on leadership positions earlier in their careers, recognising that they are fully capable of excelling in such roles. 103 Prof. Nadine Petersen Executive Dean: Faculty of Education, University of Johannesburg Background Prof. Petersen holds the position of Dean of Education at the University of Johannesburg (UJ). Her career path began as a teacher. She taught for approximately 8.5 years. She describes this experience as a “hard proving ground” where she had to mature quickly as both a professional and an educator. Her journey into academia took an unexpected turn when she approached the Dean of Education to address a racist lecturer’s mistreatment of black students. To her surprise, she was offered a job as a tutor coordinator despite not having an honours degree at the time. This job opportunity was part of an employment equity initiative to increase black representation at the University. She has been associated with her current institution and its predecessor for at least 26 years, progressing through various ranks. She acknowledges that the journey has not been easy, even though her institution is considered highlytransformed. She identifies herself as an activist, emphasising her commitment to justice, fairness, equality, and gender issues. Her activism extends beyond women’s rights to address broader societal inequalities. She highlights that the experiences of women vary significantly, based on factors like race, and says it is essential to recognise and address these 104 Women in Leadership differences to ensure equitable representation and progress for all women. She also underscores the importance of acknowledging the unique struggles faced by women from different racial backgrounds, such as Black, White, Indian, and Coloured women. She believes that paying attention to these differences is crucial to effectively address and advocate for the diverse needs and experiences of women in society. 1. What were the early messages that you were hearing about the girl child? Messages that came from people you looked up to and messages that ended up inspiring you on your leadership journey. She expressed her thoughts on the predominant messages she received from what she referred to as the Coloured community, where girls were expected to be seen and not heard. She noted the stark contrast in how girls and boys were treated, with boys being encouraged to pursue careers while girls were confined to certain roles. Growing up with a single father seemed to have a profound impact on her perspective. Her father never viewed her gender as a limitation. Despite being the eldest of two children, with a younger brother who had become a successful businessman, her father never hesitated to emphasise her intelligence. He often praised her, even comparing her favourably to her brother, although he was more successful in conventional terms. Her father’s constant message to her was that she could achieve anything she set her mind to. Her father’s advice also included a memorable analogy: “If people are bigger than you, both literally and figuratively, pick up a brick and defend yourself, throw it at them, lob it at them.” This message, to never feel overpowered and to stand up for oneself, had stayed with her throughout her life. She firmly believed that no one should be considered too big to be challenged or brought down to size. 105 Prof. Nadine Petersen Her family history also played a significant role in shaping her values and determination. Her father’s eldest sister had endured years of exile and witnessing the challenges she faced and the impactful role she played, served as a source of inspiration for her. From an early age she had learned to speak up, advocate for others, and take a stand. She had been fortunate to encounter strong women who served as teachers and mentors in her life, each with unique qualities that she could learn from. However, she emphasised that her learning was not limited to women alone; she had also been influenced by remarkable men. In academia, she highlighted individuals like Professor Jace Pillay as exemplary figures who had always supported her and been there when needed. In conclusion, her upbringing and life experiences had instilled in her the belief that one’s gender should never limit one’s potential. Her father had always treated her as an equal and encouraged her to lead, leaving a lasting impression that shaped her values and determination to overcome obstacles. 2. What are some of the glaring obstacles facing women in leadership positions in the 21st century? She highlighted several issues that she believed women commonly face. One recurring challenge she mentioned was the constant messages, both explicit and subtle, that often undermine women’s self-confidence and make them doubt their abilities. Many women, she noted, struggle with impostor syndrome, questioning whether they are truly good enough for the roles they aspire to. In contrast she observed that men often exhibit unwavering confidence, even in situations where they may not be the most qualified, leaving her curious about the origins of such self-assuredness. She attributed this difference in confidence to societal norms and socialisation, suggesting that while society encourages men to forge ahead without restraint, it simultaneously implies that women should hold themselves 106 Women in Leadership back. She felt this contributes to women not fully believing in their own potential. Additionally, she expressed concerns about the lack of support from managers when it comes to women advancing in their careers. She believed that women often need stronger advocates to help them secure leadership positions, even when they are fully capable. She questioned the assumption that every man who ascends to a leadership role is 100% prepared for it and asserted that there should be more robust mechanisms in place to promote women into leadership positions, beyond mere lip service and superficial leadershipprogrammes. Furthermore, she emphasised the need for effective mentoring, noting that not all mentors provide the necessary guidance. In her experience some mentors, who were women themselves, didn’t encourage her to speak up and be assertive. Instead, they inadvertently conveyed the message that having a voice was less important. She underscored the importance of mentors who empower women to be outspoken and confident in their leadership roles. Lastly, she discussed the issue of gender-based pay disparities, pointing out that women are often paid less than men for similar positions even within academia. She highlighted historical discrepancies at her institution, where men consistently earned more than women, reinforcing the gender pay gap. She argued that women’s struggles encompass not only personal doubts but also systemic challenges, including societal expectations, inadequate support from managers, suboptimal mentoring, and gender-based pay disparities. She emphasised the need for substantial changes and genuine commitment to address these issues and promote gender equality in academia. Professor Nadine emphasised that women in leadership roles are not solely defined by their professional lives; they are also mothers and wives. She underscored the importance of acknowledging that we still live in a society where certain 107 Prof. Nadine Petersen traditional expectations persist. While women may take on leadership positions, they also have responsibilities and commitments in their personal lives, including caring for their children and managing their households. She recounted her own experiences as a young lecturer, recalling a time when she had to pick up her daughter from school every day. meetings were often scheduled during that crucial time which had left her in a difficult position. Faced with this dilemma, she made the decision to prioritise her child’s needs and skipped the meetings for two years. She felt that those organising the meetings, who were mostly men without children, didn’t fully grasp her challenges. This created tensions and highlighted the disconnect between the demands of her personal life and professional responsibilities. She outlined five key challenges faced by women in leadership: self-doubt, limited financial support, the need to balance personal and professional lives, the lack of understanding from colleagues without similar family responsibilities, and structural issues within organisations, that sometimes support individuals she perceived as ill-suited for leadership roles. Professor Nadine believed that addressing these challenges is essential for achieving true gender equality and fostering an inclusive environment for women in leadership positions. 3. Are female leaders born or made? Please elaborate as you consider the fact that most women have additional roles like childbearing and childrearing that society still expects them to focus on. Professor Nadine Petersen encountered labels like “loud,” “arrogant,” “conceited,” and “aggressive” being directed at her, among others. She believes in not being too quick to judge. She doesn’t imply that everyone needs to aspire to be a CEO of a company, but rather that leadership can manifest in diverse ways. In her opinion, anyone can develop leadership qualities, given the right socialisation, training, and opportunities. 108 Women in Leadership She firmly believes that every woman has the potential to evolve into a leader. Her perspective extends beyond traditional CEO roles to encompass leadership in various domains, including personal development and academic careers. She perceives leadership as the capacity to guide oneself, as well as the ability to lead others, particularly young individuals with whom one engages. For her, the concept of leadership spans a wide array of roles in which women can take the lead, reflecting the diversity of opportunities for women to demonstrate leadership qualities. 4. Woman leaders are more aggressive than male leaders. What is your view on this statement? She strongly objects to the notion that aggression is a valid label for her behaviour. She perceives the term “aggression” as a label often wielded by men to characterise women who assert themselves. She points out the double standard, noting that men who exhibit similar assertiveness are described using words like “forthright” and “confident.” In contrast, when she engages in the same behaviour she is often labelled as “loud” and “aggressive.” Professor Nadine dismisses these labels as baseless and nonsensical. She believes that sometimes she is compelled to adopt a more forceful communication style simply to ensure that her voice is heard. When she speaks up, she has frequently encountered dismissiveness or indifference towards her opinions. Consequently, she may resort to persistence and repetition to make her points understood. In her view, what may be interpreted as “aggression” is, in fact, a strategic response to the need to be heard and acknowledged. She suggests that when others fail to grasp her message the first time, raising her voice becomes a means of ensuring that her perspective is recognised and takenseriously. 115 Ms Lerato Riba Executive Director: Financial Governance and Control, University of Johannesburg Background As the eldest child in her family, Ms Riba shared that her early responsibilities of looking after her siblings, learning from her parents, and her natural inclination towards being riskaverse, played a significant role in shaping her career choices. Ms Riba explained that her family background presented her with two primary career paths. On her father’s side, many family members pursued commerce-related programmes, while on her mother’s side, there was a focus on the medical field. However, her affinity for numbers and logical thinking led her to choose a career in chartered accountancy. She initially considered actuarial science but realised that it wasn’t the right fit during her university studies at UCT. Her academic journey wasn’t without its challenges. After excelling as an A student in high school, she encountered difficulties during her first semester at university, especially while studying actuarial science. She faced a critical decision point where she had to choose whether to dwell on her struggles or take proactive steps to find her true passion. Ms Riba decided to pivot her academic path, following her interest in chartered accountancy. Her dedication and hard work paid off as she successfully completed her undergraduate studies within the required time frame. However, the challenges continued as she delved into the 116 Women in Leadership professional world of chartered accountancy. She shared her experiences of the rigorous process, including completing her articles and writing board exams. One remarkable aspect of her journey was her determination to overcome obstacles. She highlighted the pride she felt in overcoming challenges during her studies and exams, particularly in obtaining her CTA (Certificate of Theory in Accounting). Ms Riba also emphasised her belief that leadership was not limited to positions or titles; instead, it was a choice that individuals could make in various aspects of their lives. She encourages the early adoption of leadership qualities and traits, as they can have a positive impact throughout one’s life. Furthermore, Ms Riba discussed her professional experiences, noting that she worked in various companies that significantly contributed to her personal growth. Her career path took her through different sectors, including the public sector. She mentioned her role at the National Treasury and how it eventually led her to her current position at the University of Johannesburg. In summary, Ms Riba’s journey is marked by her resilience, adaptability, and a strong commitment to her chosen path, which has led her to become a successful professional in the field of chartered accountancy and a leader in her own right. Her story underscores the importance of embracing challenges and seizing opportunities along the way. 1. What are the early messages that you were hearing about the girl child? Messages that came from people you look up to and messages that ended up inspiring you in your leadership journey. She shared the significant influence of her family, particularly her grandparents and parents, on her personal development and confidence. Ms Riba was fortunate to have both maternal and paternal grandparents in her life while growing up in a household where both of her parents were present. This family 117 Ms Lerato Riba environment played a pivotal role in shaping the perspective she formed about herself and her potential. Ms Riba emphasised that her parents never differentiated between their children based on gender, despite the political concepts of their time. They instilled in her the belief that she could aspire to be anything she chose in life. They encouraged her to be confident in her abilities and never limited her based on traditional gender roles. She fondly mentioned that her parents’ support was so empowering that she jokingly mentioned knowing how to change a car tyre because her mom taught her and being intentional in handling household chores due to her dad’s influence. For Ms Riba, the voices that encouraged her to believe she could achieve anything while being authentic to herself left a lasting impression and shaped the person she has become today. She carries this belief in herself and her capabilities, which has contributed to her confidence and her determination to pursue her chosen path in life. Ms Riba’s upbringing in a supportive and egalitarian family environment, where gender was not a limiting factor, played a vital role in shaping her self-belief and confidence. These early influences have had a significant impact on her life and have contributed to her sense of empowerment anddetermination. 2. What are some of the glaring obstacles for women to take on leadership positions in the 21st century? Ms Riba discussed her perspective on the challenges women faced in the workplace particularly when it came to traditional gender roles and the impact on their career progression. Ms Riba believes that traditional roles, which often box women into the category of nurturers and caregivers, while not always representative of the whole, could be a positive aspect if viewed in a more inclusive manner. She pointed out that the work environment had not adequately accommodated those roles, thus posing challenges for women. 118 Women in Leadership According to Ms Riba, one of the most significant issues she has experienced and continues to observe in today’s world is the impact of women as child-bearers on their career progression. She highlights the fact that women often need to take time off from the office for certain periods due to pregnancy and childcare responsibilities. In certain professions, this is still viewed as a potential hindrance to career advancement. She shared a personal example, saying, “if I look at some of my male counterparts, who were perhaps at the same career level as I was when I decided to rear my family and had to take a step back to make time for these responsibilities, I felt the impact. On the male side, life continues as usual thus presenting gender inequalities.” Ms Riba expresses her concern that workplaces have not yet found effective ways to prevent these challenges from hindering women’s careerprogress. For Ms Riba, it is unfortunate that no adequate solutions have been found to address this issue in the workplace. She believes that when something is seen as a hindrance, it is crucial to explore how it can be turned into an advantage or an opportunity for growth. To address these challenges, she personally pursued further education and sought ways to bring a unique set of skills to the table, beyond what is traditionally expected of chartered accountants. She advises others to do the same and encourages them to find ways to turn hindrances into opportunities to contribute distinctiveness to their work. Finally, Ms Riba’s insights shed light on the challenges women face due to traditional gender roles and the impact on their career development. She emphasises the importance of finding innovative ways to navigate these challenges and bring uniqueness to one’s professional journey, ultimately contributing to a more inclusive and equitable workenvironment. 119 Ms Lerato Riba 3. Are female leaders born or made? Please elaborate as you consider the fact that most women have additional roles like childbearing and childbirth that require them to focus on caring as well. Ms Riba addressed a question concerning the idea that women, by virtue of bearing and raising children, might be seen as being naturally born into leadership roles. She expressed her perspective on this matter and highlighted her belief that leaders were not born but made. Ms Riba clarifies that she doesn’t entirely agree with the notion that women are automatically born into leadership due to their role in childbearing and caregiving. Instead, she believes that leadership is a conscious decision and a choice that individuals make. She stated, “In any circumstance, do I choose to take a lead on something, or do I sit back and allow things to happen around me?” She further explains that because leadership is a matter of choice, it is something that is developed and nurtured over time. Various factors contribute to an individual’s journey towards becoming a leader. These factors can include the passage of time (accumulated experience), specific life circumstances, and a personal interest in exploring leadership opportunities further. 4. Women leaders are more aggressive than male leaders. What is your view on this statement? Kindly unpack it. She highlights an essential perspective on leadership and the relationship between personality traits and gender. According to her, individuals have the agency to choose the personality traits they wish to emphasise in their leadership style, irrespective of their gender. Ms Riba clarifies that if a person decides to adopt an aggressive leadership style, it is a result of their personal choice rather than being determined by their gender. She emphasises that there are various leadership styles, and 120 Women in Leadership people bring different qualities to the table. Some individuals may naturally lean towards more aggressive approaches, but this inclination is a matter of personal choice and what resonates with them. She further stresses the importance of assertiveness in leadership, noting that it is an invaluable quality for all leaders to possess, as opposed to aggression. Different situations may call for the application of various leadership traits, and it is up to the individual leader to decide which traits to emphasise. Ms Riba’s view is that these choices should not hinder leaders from achieving their goals. Ultimately, Ms Riba emphasises that personality traits and leadership styles are individual choices and should not be attributed to gender. In her perspective, leadership qualities are not gender-specific but rather a reflection of the individual’s unique personality and preferences. Key takeaway is for leaders to bring their authentic selves to the workplace, in that way promoting diversity, which has been proven to enhance workplace performance. 5. What is the most important risk that you have had to take in your leadership journey and why? Ms Riba's understanding of leadership resonates with a definition that focuses on one's ability to influence others to take actions they might not typically take. In her view, effective leadership involves having a vision of what needs to be accomplished and guiding others along a path towards that vision. She emphasised that this path is not without challenges as it often involves a mix of opportunities and hindrances. Ms Riba explains that achieving the envisioned outcome often requires taking risks. She likens this aspect to an academic discussion, highlighting that in the pursuit of a goal, individuals often encounter various risks and uncertainties. Despite these challenges, she believes in the saying that “anything worth achieving does not come easy.” 121 Ms Lerato Riba Finally, Ms Riba’s perspective on leadership centres on the idea of influencing others to pursue actions that may not be easy but are worth it in the end. It involves having a clear vision, navigating through a mix of opportunities and obstacles, and being willing to take risks to achieve the desired outcome. This perspective underscores the determination and commitment often required in leadership roles. 6. How do you continue to grow, develop and show up as a leader? Share your recipe for success. Ms Riba shares her perspective on the concept of achieving success and emphasises that she doesn’t believe there is a single, foolproof recipe for achieving it. She acknowledges that she is still on her own journey and believes that the path to success is not a ‘one-size-fits-all’ notion. Ms Riba highlights the importance of drawing joy from interacting and engaging with a wide array of people. In her view, this interpersonal connection and learning from others is a significant factor in personal and professional growth. She stresses that when individuals engage with people whom they view as different from themselves, they often find valuable lessons to learn. Furthermore, Ms Riba emphasises the value of being intentional about learning and personal development. She shares that, in her career, she always seizes opportunities to further her education and professional development. She believes it’s important to be deliberate in this pursuit. She also recommends exploring personal interests and expanding one’s knowledge into areas one might not have initiallyconsidered. She noted, “I think it is important to just expose yourself to experiences and knowledge because that contributes to being able to relate well with others, and that, for me, isgrowth.” Ms Riba’s perspective underscores the belief that there is no universal path to success, and the journey is unique for each individual. She places a strong emphasis on engaging 122 Women in Leadership with diverse individuals, being intentional about learning and development, and exploring personal interests as key components of personal and professional growth. 7. What does juggling a few balls mean for you? Ms Riba shares her experiences as a multitasking individual and the challenges of managing multiple responsibilities in a dynamic world. She jokingly expresses her desire for a personal assistant in all facets of her life, due to her propensity for multitasking. She emphasises that in this rapidly changing world, having an effective strategy for juggling various responsibilities simultaneously is crucial. Ms Riba stresses the importance of prioritisation to prevent burnout and safeguard mental health. She emphasises the significance of having a strong value system that guides individuals in determining their priorities. She shares, “I think that the key for me in terms of how to prioritise and minimise the risk of adversely affecting mental health, is possessing fundamental values around who you are and what role you bring to society at large. This proves invaluable in the quality of decisions taken.” Ms Riba also acknowledges the challenges of being a working mother and the guilt associated with having to prioritise certain responsibilities over others. She reiterates that the ability to prioritise effectively is closely tied to one’s value system. Ms Riba highlights her experiences as a multitasking individual in a fast-paced world. Ms Riba stresses the importance of effective prioritisation as a means to prevent burnout and safeguard mental health. She emphasises the role of fundamental values in guiding one’s priorities. 123 Ms Lerato Riba 8. If you were to put together a code of practice for women leaders, what would that code be and what would it look like? Ms Riba shares her code for success, which comprises three fundamental principles. First and foremost, she emphasises the importance of ‘bringing the authentic you to the table.’ Ms Riba believes that an individual’s authenticity is invaluable, as each person possesses unique qualities and experiences that can contribute positively to any situation. She underscores this as her golden rule. Secondly, she stresses the significance of self-discovery and continuous personal growth. Knowing oneself is a lifelong journey, and she encourages individuals to invest in this exploration. Lastly, Ms Riba highlights the idea that ‘it’s not all about you.’ She reminds us that we are all part of a larger collective and that valuing the contributions and perspectives of others is essential for success. 9. Wathinta Abafazi, Wathint’ Mbokodo? Mosadi Otswara Thipa ka Bo Galeng. These are a few statements that have existed, alluding to the strength of a woman. What is your view on them? Ms Riba emphasises the importance of recognising that individuals bring a wide range of traits and attributes to the table, and these qualities are not solely determined by gender. She notes that historical stereotypes and biases still persist today, often associating certain traits more with one gender than the other. Ms Riba expresses her view that such stereotypes may lead to missed opportunities as her belief is that while women can rise to the occasion as alluded to by the above saying, there are no inherent limitations due to gender. All individuals have their assortment of qualities to bring to the table, and thus contribute to the collective good. 124 Women in Leadership 10. What advice do you wish someone had given you at the beginning of your career? And why? Ms Riba expresses her gratitude for having persevered with the chartered accountancy profession. She characterises it as a journey that, despite its challenges, also brings joy, fulfilment and an array of opportunity. She emphasises the importance of taking the journey as it comes and of viewing every experience as a learning opportunity, while being intentional about it. Ms Riba also reflects on how, had she known about the opportunities this profession presented as well as the impact one is able to make, at the beginning of her career, she might have been kinder to herself, acknowledging that life unfolds as it is meant to, with a purpose to how things transpire. 131 Ms Khathu Sibanda knew that going into business would impact her finances but did it anyway, because she had the “can do, will do” attitude. She realised in her second year of business that launching a new business was a different ballgame altogether. With that she learnt that “there are people who are wired and made for certain things, and this makes them fit into entrepreneurship better”. With her, not knowing what her next move would be was hard. Not knowing if the business would be successful or not was rather frustrating. Starting a business was risky for her as she realised it was not for her. She came to believe that entrepreneurship was not for her at the time. With this realisation, Khathu gave herself time to assess her situation, she then decided to start looking for a job again. 6. How do you continue to grow, develop, and show up as a leader? Share your recipe for success. Khathu emphasised the significance of continuous learning and the acceptance of not knowing everything in her approach to leadership. She underscored her commitment to providing others with a platform to educate her on subjects she may not be familiar with as one of her strengths. She openly encourages her team, emphasising their intelligence, and urging them to impart their knowledge to her, even in her capacity as a Chief Information Officer She addressed the common misconception that leaders, particularly in her role, are expected to possess comprehensive knowledge. She candidly expressed that her team might assume she has all the answers, such as troubleshooting a computer issue or resolving a software malfunction, even when she may not possess the requisiteexpertise. Khathu response to challenges she cannot resolve herself is to seek assistance, viewing it as an opportunity to learn. She remained receptive to broadening her knowledge and firmly believed there is no shame in asking for help or admitting when she doesn’t know something. She is proactive in assessing her strengths and weaknesses, actively seeking feedback 132 Women in Leadership from her children, her spouse, close associates, networking connections, and friends to facilitate her personalgrowth. Additionally, she maintained a long-distance mentorship relationship with a mentor overseas, even though they hadn’t met in years. She valued the availability of her mentor for guidance and clarity through phone calls. She emphasised the potential for continuous coaching and mentoring, and she recognised the importance of knowing who to reach out to for specific guidance and support, a principle that has been instrumental in her journey. 7. What does juggling a few balls mean to you? For her, it means ensuring time management and effective communication; by always ensuring she clearly communicates with her husband, her children and those she works with. Time management for her also includes respecting other people’s time, informing people when she is unable to do something. She added that multitasking forms a part of strength in a woman. She made an insightful observation, highlighting the multitasking abilities of women in managing various tasks simultaneously, such as watching TV, cooking, tending to their husbands, and assisting their children with homework— all in a single moment. This adept juggling of responsibilities reflects the capacity to take prompt action by identifying issues proactively. She further emphasised the need for proactive problemsolving, distinguishing it from the common tendency of waiting for issues to surface. She articulated that individuals often claim to possess strong problem-solving skills but frequently overlook the importance of identifying potential problems, mitigating them before they escalate, and effectively resolving them in their early stages to prevent significant challenges from emerging. 133 Ms Khathu Sibanda 8. If you were to put together a code of practice for women leaders, what would that code be and what would it look like? Khathu affirmed the principle of leading by example, advocating for integrity, accountability, and a strong work ethic. She firmly believes in not instructing others to do something that she does not practice. This commitment extended to her leadership style, where she fosters an environment of trust and autonomy. She cited an example of not requiring her employees to report their movements to her, since she did not report her own movements to her manager Dr Ralephata. She valued the importance of personal responsibility and ethical behaviour. Diversity and inclusion also occupy a central role in her leadership philosophy, given the varied backgrounds of individuals within her team. She stressed the significance of listening before speaking, underlining the importance of empathetic leadership. Shea shared an example concerning a YES program graduate applying for an internship at UJ while residing in Pretoria. She illustrated how differently individuals might interpret the situation based on their backgrounds and experiences. She emphasised that as a leader, it is crucial to be both diverse and inclusive while highlighting that empathy should not be misconstrued as a sign of weakness. Her leadership approach centred on understanding, respecting, and fostering a harmonious work environment, where individuals are appreciated for their unique backgrounds andperspectives. 9. “Watinta Abafazi, Watint’Imbokodo” and “Mosadi o tshwara thipa ka bo galeng”, are sayings from the past that allude to the strength of women. What is your view on them? She said that those statements came in an era where women wanted to put a statement out there, to show they were strong and resilient and that they were contributing to certain goals, which South Africa wanted to achieve. One could refer to these statements because of the history behind them and it was important to refer to these statements within the historical context in which they were developed because women wanted to portray their strength at that specific time in the past. Khathu stressed that she did not want to be known as a rock, “a hard person that if you touch me, you will know me”, as it goes against leadership as she understands it. She stated that “to be a rock” must be contextualised properly. 10. What advice do you wish someone had given you at the beginning of your career and why? Reflecting on her career journey, she expressed the wish that someone had shared the importance of embracing mistakes and the notion that errors are permissible, forgivable, and valuable learning opportunities. She recounted her early career experiences, where the prevailing sentiment was that mistakes were not tolerated. This environment, possibly attributed to the technical and safety requirements, posed considerable challenges for her. She conveyed her regret about the fear that was instilled in her, the belief that mistakes were unrecoverable, and the perception that one could not afford toerr. Underscoring the negative impact of such a mindset, asserting that it discouraged innovation and inhibited individuals from introducing novel ideas. She expressed the desire to have been liberated from the fear that a single mistake could result in dire consequences, suggesting that it might have enabled her to approach her endeavours with a greater sense of innovation and creativity. She reflected on the significance of achieving a balance between technical qualifications and educational qualifications within the context of a technical environment like Information and Communication Technology (ICT). She expressed her wish that someone had enlightened her about the challenges of solely pursuing educational qualifications without acquiring the necessary technical skills. She noted that relying solely on educational qualifications, even at the 135 Ms Khathu Sibanda master’s or doctoral level, can lead to failure in roles that demand technical expertise. According to Khathu, the key to success in such environments lies in striking a balance between educational and technical qualifications. She stressed the importance of obtaining relevant technical certifications, such as Microsoft and security certifications as essential components of a technical skillset. She emphasised that individuals lacking traditional educational backgrounds but possessing the necessary technical qualifications can be entrusted with critical responsibilities, even in billion-dollar systems. She pointed out that technical know-how is especially crucial for those at lower professional levels, as it enables them to grow and advance, based on their technical proficiency, an aspect that educational degrees alone may not adequatelyaddress. She offered valuable guidance to young individuals, emphasising the importance of recognising and embracing their unique life journeys. Her advice centred on the idea that each person’s journey is their own and that it was essential to take ownership of it. She underscored that while other people may be available to assist, the primary responsibility remained with the individual. She encouraged young individuals to approach their journeys with a sense of ownership, setting clear goals and actively taking charge of their careers. The pivotal concept she emphasised was that it is ‘your journey, your life.’ By internalising this perspective, one could clear the path to success. This outlook avoided the common trap of comparing oneself to others and expecting handouts. She cautioned against assuming that what happens to one person should automatically apply to everyone else. Youngsters should refrain from the mindset of entitlement, and instead, they should focus on crafting their own unique journeys and shaping their destinies. 137 Prof. Mmasethunya Temane Executive Dean: Health Sciences, University of Johannesburg Background Prof Temane, currently serving as a Professor at the Doornfontein Campus (DFC) at the University of Johannesburg (UJ), has been on a remarkable journey driven by her unwavering belief in the transformative power of education. From her formative years, she embraced her parents’ conviction that “Education is the key”—a principle that shaped her path. Initially trained as a nurse, specializing in psychiatric nursing, she discovered her passion for psychiatry despite her initial reservations about the nursing profession, which she chose under family pressure. Her original desire to study social work was thwarted by parental objections, leading her to commit herself fully to nursing and strive to meet theirexpectations. After completing her first undergraduate degree at the University of North-West, she embarked on a pivotal chapter in 2010 when she joined UJ, aspiring to work in the Department of Nursing. Prof Temane’s career trajectory includes diverse experiences, such as working in IT healthcare and psychiatric hospitals. Her academic journey, somewhat serendipitously, was influenced by the guidance and mentorship of Prof Poggenpoel, which significantly impacted her professionaldevelopment. 138 Women in Leadership 1. What were the early messages that you were hearing about the girl child? Messages that came from people you looked up to and messages that ended up inspiring you on your leadership journey. Prof Temane’s journey is marked by the challenges she faced as a young girl and throughout her early education. From a young age, she struggled against discouraging messages that constantly reminded her of societal gender norms and limitations. Her siblings often told her, “You are not supposed to do this,” but her unwavering determination and stubbornness drove her to defy these expectations. It was only when she achieved her first, second, and third degrees that her family began to recognize her accomplishments and offer theirrespect. Her reflection on her school days revealed a lack of affirmation and encouragement for girls, who were typically relegated to the background without opportunities to explore their full potential. This past still deeply upsets her considering the absence of messages that could have inspired and encouraged her during her formative years. The turning point in her life came during her first undergraduate degree, where she finally received messages of inspiration and support. Her experiences at Weskoppies Psychiatric Hospital were marked by the misconception that she had attended a ‘Model C’ school due to her achievements—a testament to her unwavering determination and the recognition of her capabilities. During this time, she found mentors who encouraged her to excel and reach her fullpotential. Prof Temane is passionate about sharing the message that women can achieve anything they set their minds to. She firmly believes that females should not be afraid to pursue their dreams. Her story serves as a source of inspiration for everyone, underscoring the importance of empowerment and encouragement for women in education and society. 139 Prof. Mmasethunya Temane 2. What are some of the glaring obstacles facing women in leadership positions in the 21st century? Prof Temane declared that the first obstacle is individual barriers and explained that the messages one receives can make you start questioning yourself, which can turn into selfdoubt. Another obstacle would be organizational barriers. Although we work in an environment where people will say they care for you and believe in you, there are subtle biases against women. Women have to position themselves as women so that they will learn to know and understand themselves. Every woman should remind herself that she has unlimited potential and should never allow anyone to tell her what she can or cannot do. She added that she coaches herself and reminds herself of these words without it turning into a cliché. She has regular conversations with her best friend about obstacles that she faces, which has helped her immensely. 3. Are female leaders born or made? Please elaborate as you consider the fact that most women have additional roles like childbearing and childrearing that society still expects them to fulfil. Prof Temane believes that female leaders are born and not made. She expressed that there is not much of a difference between female and male leaders. It has been difficult for her to engage in a male-dominated environment. Although people will always say that male leaders are born, so are women. This is illustrated by how women can juggle all their different roles and still make it to the top. Therefore, she believes that female leaders are born and not made. 4. Women leaders are more aggressive than male leaders. What is your view on this statement? Kindly unpack it. During a candid conversation, Prof Temane playfully remarked that the above statement sounded like it was written by a man, highlighting the challenges that women sometimes face 140 Women in Leadership in advocating for themselves and their beliefs. She does not personally subscribe to this viewpoint, firmly believing that society often struggles to comprehend and appreciate women who stand firm and express assertiveness. She stressed that it is crucial to recognize that not all women exhibit passive-aggressive behaviour and that it is unjust to stereotype women leaders as aggressive. Prof Temane underscored the importance of understanding the dynamics at play, noting that women leaders must be wellversed in “the game” and its rules, striving to act on their own terms, rather than adhering to someone else’s ideas. Moreover, she acknowledged that some men may attempt to push women to their emotional limits, which is a test of resilience and a reflection of societal expectations. Women, she explained, may find themselves pushed into a state of apparent aggressiveness, but this does not necessarily mean they are inherently aggressive. Their assertiveness may be a response to the external circumstances they face. 5. What is the most important risk you have had to take on your leadership journey and why? Prof Temane shared valuable insights into the nature of leadership, highlighting that taking up a leadership role is inherently a risk. The uncertainty of the journey ahead, including the unknown challenges, team dynamics, and the very essence of leadership, can be a daunting prospect. She underscored the need for leaders to consistently perform at their best, both for themselves and their teams, as they step into the role. A pivotal moment in her leadership journey occurred in 2017 when she was nominated for the position of Head of Department (HOD). Initially, she hesitated to accept the nomination, as she had always envisioned leading from behind the scenes. However, she sought counsel from Prof Swart, who, upon learning of her reluctance, urged her to embrace the role, emphasizing that it was a path she should not shy