A clean writer: an interview with Robert Laxalt

Re 'is a de Es udios No eame icanos, 11." 5 ( 1997), pp . 21 - 27 A CLEAN WRITER: AN INTERVIEW WITH ROBERT LAXALT DAVID R ío Un i e sidad del País Vasco Robe Laxal was bo o in Al u as, Cali o nia, in 1923. He g ew up in Ca son Ci y, Ne ada, and g adua ed om he Uni c si y o N e a da in 1947. Thc oundc di ec- o o hc Uni e si y o Ne ada P ess, Laxal has also been a Uni ed P css co esponden , a Fulb igh esea ch schola , a consul an in Basque cu l u e o he Lib a y o Cong ess and a w i e -in- esidence a he Uni e si y o Ne ada. He cu en ly se es as isi ing p o esso a he Re ynolds School o Jou nalism a he Uni e si y o Ne ada-Reno. M Laxal is he au ho o wel c books, bo h ic ion and non ic ion, and nume o us a icles o Na ional Geog aphic and o he magazines. His b ooks ha e won c i ica! accla im and awa ds h oughou he wo ld. Laxal 's Swee P omised Land (1957) became he i s sele c ion o he Na ional Book Socie y in England andan al e na e o he Li e a y Guild in he Uni ed S a es. A Man in he Whea ield (1964) was chosen as one o he mos dis in guished wo ks o Ame ican ic ion o ha yea by he Ame ican Li b a y Assoc ia ion. A Cup o Tea in Pamplona ( 19 85) ea med him he Tambo de O o p ize in Spain o his li e a y con ibu ions o he Basque cul u e. The Basque Ho el ( 1989) was nomina ed o a Puli ze P ize in ic ion. Q. M L axa l , may we s a alking abou you ea ly li e a y ex p e iences? Elsewhe e, you ha e said ha he ac ha you ca ne om an immig an (Basque) household did no allow you o know ce ain books and au ho s du ing y ou childhood. Co u ld you co mm en on his? A. Well, 1 s ill emembe when we mo ed om ou li le house o a nice house in Ca son Ci y and we s a ed isi ing so ne o he well-educa ed amilies ha li ed on he same s ee ... My mo he ju s coul dn' belie e ha he e could be a whole wall o books. Bu she s a ed soon o ask o books, encyclop ed ias and e e y hing else. And a ha ime l eally lo ed o ead. Fo example, when I was sick, du ing my heuma ic 22 Da id Río pc iod. my sis c s wo uld h ing me lo s o books. Thc c wc c ad en u e hooks h a I lo cd: Jack London's no els, Jules Vemc's s o ies, he Ta zan books, Ma y Shelley's F a11kc11s ei11. B am S oke 's D acula ... Howe c . as I was om an immigmn househol d, J didn ' ead so ne o hc s anda d child en books ha we c com mon o Anglo-Sax on amil ic s. Thus, I didn ' ead un il mu ch la e AliC<: in Wo11dala11d and i su p ised me how wise and p o ound i was. In gene al, wes e n. on ie and ad en lu e wc c ami- lia o me, bu he sc ious cading bcgan a c college. Q. When di d you decide o bccome a w i c and why? A. I don ' know. In he í s place, my mo hc con inccd me ha i I wc e a w i e , I would die b oke. My a he was in c es cd bccause he was a c y good s o y elle , bu he nc c da cd o oicc an opinion on i . 1 lo ed o w i c always, bu I also knew p ac ically ha I couldn' make a li ing in ha way. So. ac ually when I wen o Ne ada J was s udying o become a diploma , no Joumalism, b u His o y and English, o join he diploma ic se ice. Howe c , in o d c o hclp mysel h ough sc hool. I bcgan o w i c s o ies pa - ime o hc Reno newspapc . so 1 jus go akcn on o ha and ollowed i a ie . I was almos! 22 a ha ime and w i ing h en was somc hing ad en u ous. I knew no w i e s. I ne e o ok a w i ing cla~s in my li e. so his was a hu ge disad an age. So. 1 was w i ing as be s as 1 co uld. a nd made e o s. Bu I s a ed se ll ing s o ies almos om he bcginning. 1 sold he i s s o y a icle 1 w o e and 1 sold hc i s ic i on s o y I w o e. Q. Ho we e , du ing hose i s yea s you wc c no e y ce ai n o you succcss as a w i e . E en you w o e a le e o you li e a1y agen whe e you includcd he ollowing s a emen : « I'm bo n and aiscd he e, hc son o a li es ockman, and conduc ing a e y in c cs ing cxpe imen : how long does i ake a w i c o s a e o dea h.» A. Well, al i s I didii' hink I was ha good.jus ying o s ay ali c as a w i c , makc a li ing. So. l hough o ha c ajob and h cn w i ing was some hing you did ex a, o un and plcasu c. Thcn, a e Swee P omised Land 1 bcgan o ake i se iously. Q. Do you sha e Hemin gway's de ini ion o w i ing as a gu - ea ing o deal? A. No, nc c gu - ea ing and nc e an agony. I is an u mos pleasu e, eally. Howc e , 1 am e y ca e ul, w i ing and ew i ing. I ollow wo d upon wo d, sen ence upon sen ence. Some imes I ge in o a w i ing block and 1 d on' know exac ly whe e l'm going ncx . Th cn, in despe a ion I ju s ypc ali bunches o e e y hing, c azy. and hcn ou o ha will come so ne sense o o de o wha I'm eally 1ying o say. Bu , mos ly, I'm a e y ca e ul w i e . Q. You don ' w i e c y long books. Is he e any pa icula eason o i ? A. Wcll, he e a e a lcas h ee easons. One, he n ews pape aining has made me a w i e . Two , ha 's he kind o w i ing I like o do. And h ee, I guess i 's he Basque pa in me. They a e shm1-spoken people, so me oo. You do no ind oo many Ba sques ha was e wo ds. Q. The au obiog aphical elemen s play an impo an ole in mos o you wo ks, bo h ic ion and non- ic ion. Do you hink ha pe sonal expe i ence is undamen al o a w i e ? A Clea11 W i e : A11 l11 e iew wi h Robe Laxa/ 23 A. I hink so, like Hc ningway said. w i ing comes om wha you know. Yes, I hink ha pe sonal expc ienccs a e c y impo an bccause we leam om pe so nal li ni a ions, abou wha you would do upon ce ain ci cums ances. Fo example, l lea n an aw ul lo abou mysel in poli ics, wo king wi h my b o he in his poli ical campaigns. A c you ha c becn h ough a polí ica! ca npaign, nobody is gonna ool you. You ge o be a good judge o human na u c. Poli ics ascina ed me, bu joumalism was aluable, oo, becausc o he expe iences i ga e o you. Fo ins ancc, The lean Yea all( O he S o ies, ha was om jou na lism, aking ac ual c cn s and in en ing. Andas a p o esso now, I ! o e he exchangc wi h yo u ng minds. I' e wa ched oo many people ge old and hei eac ions, hei ways, becomc old, oo. Bu wi h young ninds. you s ay young. So, J ' e leam om each o hese ac i i ies. Q. Rela cd o his, why ha e you no w i cn a book abo u you uni e si y expc iencc'? I hink ha you mcn ioned his possibilily in he pas . bu so a you ha e no deal wi h his subjec . A. Well, I ha c nea ly o go en 1 w o c a p c y good sha e o a book on acade- mia and adminis a ion c isis. And i is no bad, bu i is abou a nega i e c isis. I hink ha in he uni e si y you o en ha c di c si y: a lo o wondc ul eachc s and p o csso s, bu also a cw ha ha e o ally disillusioned me. Thcy ha e o s ab each o he in he back, hey ha e no scnsc o hono . I did a sa i e on poli ics in The Go emo 's Mansion, hui 1 canno do his on hc uni c si y. Q. By hc way. why do you includc a he beginning o The Go e no 's Mamion hc ollowing wo ds: «All cha ac e s and e en s a e ic i ious. Any esemblance o pe sons li ing o dcad is s ic ly coincidcn al.» Is i due o i s poli ical con cn ? I I'm no mis akcn, you ha e1ú uscd his s a emen in any o you ea lic no cls o sho s o ies. A. Wcll, hcse a e no my wo ds, he publishe s includcd hem. I know h a he uni e si y boa d o egcn s was wonied because I used eal ac s and na nes- hoodlums, J. Edga Hoo c . Howa d Hughcs and Sina a. I was an e a ha Ne ada con enien ly o go becausc i was emha as sing .. . Wcll, you s a hc book. you s a an inciden and you s a w i ing, you ollow he sense o he d ama ic, and you add cha ac c is ics so ha hc inciden and he cha ac c s a e o ally un ecognizable. Today i you askcd me wha eally h ap pcned in The Go e no 's Mansion, cxac ly wha li e ally happencd, I cou ldn ' ell you wha o his is li e ally me o is in en ion, I couldn ' . On so ne in ciden s I ab ica cd, in en ed. somc hing o d ess hem up. Wi h hc hoodlums, howc e , I didn ' do any d essing. I used eal na nes, bu I didn ' ip hem. I don ' like hu ing in books . I 's easy o do ha , bu I don ' like o do ha . Q. Which a e you main li e a y mod els o in luences? You ha e bcen compa ed o a g ca numbe o di e en w i e s: E nes Hc ningway, John S einbeck, Willia n Sa oya n, Wal c Van Tilbu g Cla k, Sh e woodAnde son and e en Juan Ramón Jim énez. A. When l s a cd w i ing, I had no ead S einbeck, I had no ead Hemingway, hough when I s a ed ead ing him , I lik ed hi n e y much. Wal e Van Tilbu g Cla k did no in luen ce my w i ing ei he , because I was a clean w i e , a nd wha I was w i ing 24 Da id Río abou 1 li ed, and he didn ' ... None o he Russian w i e s ei hc , hough 1 liked Tu gene . 1 hink Jack Lon don p obably in luen ced me subconsciously becau se 1 lo ed he ad en u e, he clean w i ing. Howe e , I ne e ied imi a ing any o hem. Q. I seems ha c i ics do no ag ce on a de ini ion o you s yle o w i ing. Thus, some o hem ha e called i simple, di ec , unadomed and j oumalis ic. Howe e , o he c i ics ha e alkcd abou i s poe ic and ly ical quali ies. How would yo u de ine i you sel ? A. I h ink i 's e y dange ous o a w i e o y o de i ne his s yle o w i i ng because you ha e o belie e ha and you will be in ouble. Bu i you wish me o do so, I would say clean, clean w i ing, no obscu i ies. Q. You said once, «l ha e wo ked ha d o de elop a s yl e.» Do you consid e ha he s yle o Swee P omised Land is you na u al s yle? And, pa i cula ly. could you exp l ain he im po ance o humo in i ? A. I 's my s yle, ha was w i en om he hea . I had no models o come om. Someone said I should ead The Re um o he Na i e by Thomas Ha dy . I e used because I wan ed o w i e my own book ami ha en' ead i ye . Swee P omi sed Land was a bo ok w i en wi h no in luence o any o he w i e s. And humo is impo an! in i . I lo e humo . I hink ha i a book is e y se i ous, you can use humo as a coun e pa . l helps hc message ha you wan o co n ey. And so much can be accomplished wi h humo . I pa icula ly l o e he Ba sq uc se nse o humo because i is w y, i onic and sac ilegious. Q. Do you ag ec ha he main sub jec o Swee P omised Land is hc modem indi idual 's need o meaning, o a sen se o pla ce and iden i y? A. Yes, ha makes sense o me. I guess 1 wa s sea ch ing o ide n i y, bu I was w i ing mo s ly abou my a he and my anc es o s' iden i y as a byp oduc . I hink ha ídcn i y is e y impo an o me. Q. Would you say ha in his book he immig an 's desi e o in eg a ion and his eluc ance o lose his c hnic iden i y ac as opposing o ces? A. Yes, I hink ha is sound, bul bo h o ces a e nol mu ually exclusi e, hey go oge he , h ey in luence one an o h c . Q. C i ics ha e cmphasized he con as be ween Swee P omised Land, a non- ic ion book, and A Man in he Wheal ield, you i s no el. How di e en do you hink bo h wo ks eally a e? A. Oh, he y' e al oge he di e en . Swee P omised Land was publishcd by Ha pe 's and hey lo ed i as a memoi , an a ec i ona e memoi o hi s so n o his a he . Then, I se n hem A Man in he Whea ield, wi h ali hc snake business in i , and h ey almosl hada heai1 a ack. They did mean injus ice in he sense ha hey didn ' ealize ha a w i c can ha e man y ace s Lh ough his li e. Then, El.izabe h Law ence a Ha pe 's sen i ou o so ne c i ica! eade s and hey said i was supe io . Then she ealized h e e was some hing h e e , he book wen ou and he e iews we e e y good news. Q. Could you explain he genesis o A Man in he Whea ield'! A. My iew o he book is no objec i e and also he e a e hings ha happen in he c ea i e p oces s ha he au ho is no aw a e co nsc ious ly, hey ex is in he A C/ean W i e : An l n en • ie w wi h Robe Laxal 25 subconsciou s. 1 hink ha w i ing comes om wha is pu ely supe s i ion, imagina i on, o lk memo y, ac ual memo y and ange , injus ice. Whe n a w i e has o speak ou o say some hing, h a makes a di c ence .. .ln ac , I had been wo king on ano he no el o a yca anda hal , bu he only copy o i was s olen while we we e in F ance. So, I ied o econs uc i , bu i didn ' wo k. A he back o my mind I had he idea abou he new no el, and 1 had c en done so ne esea ch on al les nak es be o e 1 le Ame ica. So, I began hinking se iously abou he book in a s a e o despai . I had hese elemen s bouncing a ound in my hcad, bu be a e 1 w o e he wo k I had o so l ou wo d eams o nigh ma cs ha J used o ha e: one was he d eam o a child and hc o he was a nigh ma e ha I s ill had un il I w o e he no el. Then I ne e had his d eam again. I guess ha he no el was my exo cism. Bo h d eams p og essed o he d eams o Fa h e Sa ia in he book. We ll , abou he cha ac e s, hey g ow as you w i e aboul hem, and hey ake on cha ac e is i cs o en di e en om he ones you concei ed. E e y one o he cha ac e s in his no el g ew up in h is ashion. So, Fa he Sa io was c ea ed a e a Jesui p ies a S . Cla a Uni e si y in Ca li o nia, bu l added new dimensions. And pa o he p ies is in me, in my d eams, in my backg o und (1 was aised in a Ca holic amily and my sis e was a nun). Now, Smale Calde w as c ea e d a e a man ha li ed in Day on and had he gi o picking up a llesnakcs and ne c be in g bi en. Al so I knew a le s. So, 1 ook his s ange chemis y and in e n ion o makc my cha ac c , an innocen li ing in an una ac i e wo ld and almos epul si e en i onmen , who ]o es snakes o he sake o hei g ace and mo emen . And I chose a se in g: a own peopled by J alian immig an s. 1 couldn ' use Ame icans be ca u se Smale was he ou side and he was Ame ican. T couldn º use Basques because hey jus don ' show hei em o ions. So he only o he g oup I knew was h e I alians. 1 was only s uck by hei classic na u e: classic eac ions, classic ange , classic poli icians a nd classic unde lying passion. I ealized ha l was w i ing in his book abou he meanings o such o e used wo ds as good, e il, la e , cn y, ego, hypoc isy, innocence, and sy mbol and my h. This book was my expl o a i on in o ali he hings y ou don ' know. As Hemingway said, «w i ing comes om wha you know, bu i also comes om a li hc hings you canno know.» So, I guess ha he book was my own de il de ma e ialized. Q. Which is he impo ance o sy mbols in his no el? Pe haps you ha e e en hea d abou a c i i c who sa id ha he book collapsed unde a hea y load o symbo ll a y. A. I only used a ew symbols in i because 1, on p incipie, do no like oo many symbols. Besides, wha e e symbols 1 used, hey we e eanhbound symbols. The snake, o example, as a Ch is ian sy mbol o e il, hough in G eek imes hey ha d a di e en , holy meaning. A nd hen, so ne we e pu posc ul. Manuel Ca e a a, o exa mple, he s a nds o Emmanuel o God, he a he symbol who c ea es he own. And hings like ha . Q. W ou ld you say h a in In a Hun d ed G a es: A Basque Po ai and A Cup o Tea in Pamp/011a, bo h o hem se in he Basque Coun y, he meaning o he pas and adi ion cons i u e a ecu en ap ie? 26 Dm ·id Río A. Well. no exac ly so. In In a H1111d ed G ai·es I was jusi ying o cap u e hc Basquc illages. l was my Basque p ojec . I was aki ng no es. oluminous no es and l didn ' know i he incidcn o he con c sa i on was wo h a s o y. Then , when l had pu h em down, he only p oblem hc c was wha o dc o pul he s o ies in in a small olume. Ac ually hose we c ac ual no es becausc I ealized, once 1 go he e. i was almos impossiblc o iml a o mula o exp laining wha was going on he Basquc i ll age. I was jus ying o hui Id a nosaic o a Basque illa ge by akin g: i ndi idua ls and incidcn s. Thcn I made one mis a ke on a pa icula s o y in he hook , «No C oss oads o Augus ine.» The s o y should ha c becn a no ella, i had all he ing edien s o a no ella. And A Cup o a in Pamplona was s ic ly ad en u e. I wasn ' making a big s a emcn , hough I made a social commen on wha happens in coun ies whe e ich and poo a e so sha ply di i<lcd. In he ime he book was w i en one had o kccp s a ion ami appea ancc, and o a peasan o b eak he code o s a ion was disas e . Q. Which is. in you opinion. he mos impo an! common h ead o you Basque- amily ilogy (The Rasque Ho el. Chi/d o he Holy Ghos and Th e Go e no 's Ma11sio 11)'? A. Family ... Child ~ ' lu : Holy Glws was w i en hecause my mo he was hu so hadly. I didn ' y o po ay he illag:e as c uel. i 's jus hc way hings we e. In a way h a 's heal hy hecause i cas s c edibili y on he cs o i , oo ... The Basque Ho el, ha was jus i a ki<l 's expe iencc g owing up. The kid doesn ' unde s and wha he immig an s a e su ppo sed o be. l 's a ki ! no denying his ances y, i is jus ha he can ' unde s and i . In The Gm·e nm"s Mansio11 amily is undamen al, o o. I hink ha du ing ha pe iod hc !o e o people o he i ela i es was so s ong h a hey would sac i ice hei own ca ce s in o de o help amily. Also I ea lized w i ing i ha his was an in aluable expe ience. I inished hc book and hen I had his d eam o going home. bu hc e was no home and no amily. I w o e i and i was Monique, my daugh c . who cad i and sa id: «Papa, h a 's he en d o you book.» I coul<ln' sce i and hen l did sec i . She was igh . Q. You ha e publish ed so a wo co llec ions o sho s o ies: The Vio/en Lwzd: Tales he Old 1i'me s Tell and A Lean Yca a!ld 01/ze S10 ies. Bo h o hem includc an impo11an numbe o «Wes e n» s o ics. How can you cxplain you a ac ion owa d his gen e, co nside cd as a mino onc by so ne c i ics? A. Well, The iiole11 Land was my i s a emp o ake an ac ual e en and ic ionalize i , d ama ize i . So, mos o h e s o ies ac ually happened, bu I ga e hem dialogue, desc ip ions, Indians, soldie s ... A Lean Yea . we ll , I was ying o ind ou w ha kind o w i e I was and ob iously I didn ' know any hing abou he wo ld o w i ing up he e. And I chose Wes e n s o ies because i was all ha I kn ew hen. And my i s !o e has always been he Wc s ancl he people he e. Q. A Lean Yea and O he S o ies co nsis s o s o i es ha you w o e in he i ies and ha you h a e n ' changcd o h ei puhlica ion in 1994. So ne o hem we e ejec ed hen and now h ey a e pub li shed. How do you explain his change? Is i du e o an e o l u ion in he audience o o he ac ha you now ha e a long-es ablished epu a ion as a w i e and edi o s ca n accep you s o ies wi hou aki ng isks? A Clean W i e : An ln en·ú· .· wi h Roba! Laxal 27 A. Yes , I gucss i his sccond eason. I ne e ied o pu ali hcse s o ies oge hc , bu a ha ime I was cally igh ing he es ablishmen . l was a aid ha e e y one o hese s o ies would be aboo in he magazine ma kc . They we e oo «da k» o h e es ablishmen . You didn ' w i e abou gambling, poli icians o execu ions. Howe c , I go e c y s o y in hen. excep «T he Mu dc e ,» «The Hc d S alke » anda couplc o o hc s. bu hey wc c o ally aboo. Q. Finally, which a e you w i ing plans o hc immcdia c u u e? A. I'm w i ing a no ella loosc ly bascd on an inciden! my a he had o do wi h in 1912. I 's a s o y abou a young whi e cowboy and his closes iend. an Indian boy. Thc s o y in ol es us lc s, bandi s and so ne ema kable India ns ha you ha e nc c seen be o e. l 's gonna be a se ious s o y. I can d aw on my knowledge o Indians and cowbo ys a nd my dad expe ienccs, oo. Oh, and my las book i will be abou A ica, abou my cxpc icnce hc c in Wo ld Wa II . 1 kcp a dia y o i un il he poin I was dyi ng o wha secmed o be dysen c y. I had a wei d expe ience a couple o mon hs ago. I opcncd he dia y. and I ealized ha he dia y was impo an! no because o wha i said, bu beca use o wha i did n ' say. I b ough back so man y bad ncmo ies ha I had o e lose he book. A hc end o i i says: «why do you con inuc w i ing i you a e going o die in wo wceks'?» So. 1 h cw i down and I o go abou i . Bu hc e is a po en ial he c, i I am l ucky o ge de ached. Thc c 's a po cn ial he e o he bes hing 1 e e w i e in my l i e.